Turulato
Amazing. Your gif is almost like the last machine of mine that failed.
I am making improvements......
It Would Be More Noble To Clear J. Bessler's Name, than trying to solely profit
Moderator: scott
re: It Would Be More Noble To Clear J. Bessler's Name, than
Robert (The Carpenter's Boy)
There's never time to do it right the first time, but there's always time to do it over again.
There's never time to do it right the first time, but there's always time to do it over again.
re: It Would Be More Noble To Clear J. Bessler's Name, than
Turtulato .
Altough i am not sure how your acrobats are connected to the wheel ,in order to behave in way they do , i must give you very high mark for originality!
Se ve muy bien!!.
Altough i am not sure how your acrobats are connected to the wheel ,in order to behave in way they do , i must give you very high mark for originality!
Se ve muy bien!!.
re: It Would Be More Noble To Clear J. Bessler's Name, than
If anybody is in to springs with their designs, here's the place to find them..
There is a load calculator to help find the one you think you need.
http://www.centuryspring.com/home.htm
Boys you have to BUILD! WM2D is too easy when you fail. You have to feel the elation of a new idea, the anticipation of success, and the best way to learn of all...the heartbreak of defeat.
There is a load calculator to help find the one you think you need.
http://www.centuryspring.com/home.htm
Boys you have to BUILD! WM2D is too easy when you fail. You have to feel the elation of a new idea, the anticipation of success, and the best way to learn of all...the heartbreak of defeat.
Robert (The Carpenter's Boy)
There's never time to do it right the first time, but there's always time to do it over again.
There's never time to do it right the first time, but there's always time to do it over again.
re: It Would Be More Noble To Clear J. Bessler's Name, than
Hola oprimido (underdog) gracias.
It really is very simple, two weights, one on each end attached with a piece of wood, the wood is sloted from weight to weight, the wheel has a peg or wood stub where you hang the weights using the slot, you also use pegs to direct how the weights fall, and finally you use the pendulum as an obstruction to just about the middle of the "broken columns" to minimize the effort in fliping the acrobats.
Somewhere on this tread you'll find a drawing I posted, but since it was not too clear I guess, I was requested an animation. Hope things are clearer for you now.
Turulato
(un loco mas) :-)
It really is very simple, two weights, one on each end attached with a piece of wood, the wood is sloted from weight to weight, the wheel has a peg or wood stub where you hang the weights using the slot, you also use pegs to direct how the weights fall, and finally you use the pendulum as an obstruction to just about the middle of the "broken columns" to minimize the effort in fliping the acrobats.
Somewhere on this tread you'll find a drawing I posted, but since it was not too clear I guess, I was requested an animation. Hope things are clearer for you now.
Turulato
(un loco mas) :-)
Inventors, Masters of Creative and independent thought
-
ken_behrendt
- Addict
- Posts: 3487
- Joined: Wed Mar 02, 2005 7:45 am
- Location: new jersey, usa
- Contact:
re: It Would Be More Noble To Clear J. Bessler's Name, than
Ralph...
That design I posted above was just a quick sketch of an idea I had years ago...it may not be accurate since I based it on memory and not the original sketch I had made back then.
The principle of operation is that when ONE of the weights slides down and pushes against the lever, the lever will then push the other weight out toward the rim. You are quite right in observing that if there is no change in the location of the c.g. of a weight pair, then this design will not work. So, it would be necessary to find a lever mechanism (probably not the one shown) that will actually temporarily shift the c.g. of the pair closer to the rim, but will afterward return it to its starting position.
This will not be an easy task to accomplish and that may be why I did not pursue the design in the past.
turulato...
I liked your animated gif PM wheel, but I wish you had slowed it down a bit so I could more easily follow what was happening to the weights.
I notice that each double weight assembly slides along one pin and is deflected by that indepently mounted pendulum thing in the middle of the wheel. However, I think that if you made each weight assembly slide along TWO pins instead of one, then you might be able to get rid of the pendulum gadget.
I do not know if your design would work. Above you wrote:
ken
That design I posted above was just a quick sketch of an idea I had years ago...it may not be accurate since I based it on memory and not the original sketch I had made back then.
The principle of operation is that when ONE of the weights slides down and pushes against the lever, the lever will then push the other weight out toward the rim. You are quite right in observing that if there is no change in the location of the c.g. of a weight pair, then this design will not work. So, it would be necessary to find a lever mechanism (probably not the one shown) that will actually temporarily shift the c.g. of the pair closer to the rim, but will afterward return it to its starting position.
This will not be an easy task to accomplish and that may be why I did not pursue the design in the past.
turulato...
I liked your animated gif PM wheel, but I wish you had slowed it down a bit so I could more easily follow what was happening to the weights.
I notice that each double weight assembly slides along one pin and is deflected by that indepently mounted pendulum thing in the middle of the wheel. However, I think that if you made each weight assembly slide along TWO pins instead of one, then you might be able to get rid of the pendulum gadget.
I do not know if your design would work. Above you wrote:
You say it "appears" to be continuously out of balance. Well, then, did the WM2D simulation indicate that the design was achieving PM?I also did a simple WM2D and the wheel appears continuously of balance
ken
On 7/6/06, I found, in any overbalanced gravity wheel with rotation rate, ω, axle to CG distance d, and CG dip angle φ, the average vertical velocity of its drive weights is downward and given by:
Vaver = -2(√2)πdωcosφ
Vaver = -2(√2)πdωcosφ
Re: re: It Would Be More Noble To Clear J. Bessler's Name, t
Hi Turulato!turulato wrote:Hey Trev, you still out there?
A month ago you requested an animation, well here it is, it took me a while but I got to it. I also did a simple WM2D and the wheel appears continuously of balance. Could it be this simple? Until I build it or somebody does we won't know.
I have been unable to access the forum for a week due to bad phone line quality :(
I like the animation, well done. A bit slower would make it easier to follow. It may work but I notice the center of gravity is slightly below the axle, you'll have to build it now :)
Trev.
re: It Would Be More Noble To Clear J. Bessler's Name, than
Here's the inner wheel mounted to the wheel faceplate.
You may see the weights and some arms laying on the floor in the background.
Did a test and found where in the failed wheel, there was a force being generated above the axle that was pulling everything to a stop, now there is also at the same time a force equal to that above, being generated below the axle. So, the deadening force seems to be cancelling out and the weights will free fall.
You may see the weights and some arms laying on the floor in the background.
Did a test and found where in the failed wheel, there was a force being generated above the axle that was pulling everything to a stop, now there is also at the same time a force equal to that above, being generated below the axle. So, the deadening force seems to be cancelling out and the weights will free fall.
- Attachments
-
Robert (The Carpenter's Boy)
There's never time to do it right the first time, but there's always time to do it over again.
There's never time to do it right the first time, but there's always time to do it over again.
re: It Would Be More Noble To Clear J. Bessler's Name, than
Rks1878
Very impressive work!
I am looking also at what I belive your use of roof brackets.
If this is part of the system, it is the best use for roofing brackets I have ever seen.
I see you have more that carpentry skills
Very impressive work!
I am looking also at what I belive your use of roof brackets.
If this is part of the system, it is the best use for roofing brackets I have ever seen.
I see you have more that carpentry skills
JB Wheeler
it exists I think I found it.
it exists I think I found it.
re: It Would Be More Noble To Clear J. Bessler's Name, than
JB,
I do not see truss clips, "H" clips, hurricane ties or fishplates in the above picture.
Please explain what it is you are calling a roof bracket?
I do see wha appears to be an early Craftsman drill press, a rockwell Band saw and to the far left there appears to be a radial overhead router.
Ralph
I do not see truss clips, "H" clips, hurricane ties or fishplates in the above picture.
Please explain what it is you are calling a roof bracket?
I do see wha appears to be an early Craftsman drill press, a rockwell Band saw and to the far left there appears to be a radial overhead router.
Ralph
re: It Would Be More Noble To Clear J. Bessler's Name, than
Ralph
If you can expand your screen by first left click on the image, and let that open.
Then after this you can use your mouse which now should have a little magnifying glass instead of the usual arrow on it, and left or right click again while over the image.
Then after this loads and the image is now larger, you can zoom in on it more, by going to the top of your screen and clicking on view and scroll down the list. It should have a choice of (view full screen) click on that.
After that loads, you are now on full screen, and it is almost like you are in the room where rsk1878 has made a beautiful wheel from wood.
If you look on the floor on the left side, I believe I see several wood roof brackets with the ends that nail to a roof cut off.
I would expect he may be using these in his design as they have a hinge point and are very easy to fold. This may be totally off, but you may now be able to spot what I think are cut off roof brackets
If you can expand your screen by first left click on the image, and let that open.
Then after this you can use your mouse which now should have a little magnifying glass instead of the usual arrow on it, and left or right click again while over the image.
Then after this loads and the image is now larger, you can zoom in on it more, by going to the top of your screen and clicking on view and scroll down the list. It should have a choice of (view full screen) click on that.
After that loads, you are now on full screen, and it is almost like you are in the room where rsk1878 has made a beautiful wheel from wood.
If you look on the floor on the left side, I believe I see several wood roof brackets with the ends that nail to a roof cut off.
I would expect he may be using these in his design as they have a hinge point and are very easy to fold. This may be totally off, but you may now be able to spot what I think are cut off roof brackets
JB Wheeler
it exists I think I found it.
it exists I think I found it.
re: It Would Be More Noble To Clear J. Bessler's Name, than
I am talking about this type of roof bracket, with end cut off
- Attachments
-
- roof bracket.JPG (3.69 KiB) Viewed 7076 times
JB Wheeler
it exists I think I found it.
it exists I think I found it.
re: It Would Be More Noble To Clear J. Bessler's Name, than
Turulato
Now that explanation is much better!..
I would make path of weights to fallow more
hart shape (, central figure.) It would improve gc.
YOUR IDEA IS BETTER THEN MINE!..
From outside to inside approach!!!...
Refreshing!..
“de un loco al otro loco!”…
ROBERT
Your wheel is absolutely stunning!
Now that explanation is much better!..
I would make path of weights to fallow more
hart shape (, central figure.) It would improve gc.
YOUR IDEA IS BETTER THEN MINE!..
From outside to inside approach!!!...
Refreshing!..
“de un loco al otro loco!”…
ROBERT
Your wheel is absolutely stunning!
re: It Would Be More Noble To Clear J. Bessler's Name, than
Actually, those are 10" full extension drawer slides. Those arms there piled up have to expand and contract some...
The machinery in the background is a small Delta drill press set up to make mortises (can't see the setup). Behind that a 14" Delta band saw, one of four bandsaws I have. Next and barely visible, a Powermatic shaper, w/1.25" spindle, and the large motor on the left belongs to another much larger Delta drill press.
The mystery of PM is enough to deal with, so I thought I'd clear up these ancillary mysteries.....
The machinery in the background is a small Delta drill press set up to make mortises (can't see the setup). Behind that a 14" Delta band saw, one of four bandsaws I have. Next and barely visible, a Powermatic shaper, w/1.25" spindle, and the large motor on the left belongs to another much larger Delta drill press.
The mystery of PM is enough to deal with, so I thought I'd clear up these ancillary mysteries.....
Robert (The Carpenter's Boy)
There's never time to do it right the first time, but there's always time to do it over again.
There's never time to do it right the first time, but there's always time to do it over again.
re: It Would Be More Noble To Clear J. Bessler's Name, than
underdog,
So is your performance at converting your perfect English writing ability into broken English.
So is your performance at converting your perfect English writing ability into broken English.
Robert (The Carpenter's Boy)
There's never time to do it right the first time, but there's always time to do it over again.
There's never time to do it right the first time, but there's always time to do it over again.
re: It Would Be More Noble To Clear J. Bessler's Name, than
Hi Ken:
Well since I'm not real proefficient using WM2D I ecounter a few problems that I'm sure you are familiar with, I could draw the weight assemblies and with two or three assemblies in place it would rotate and drop but when adding more than that it would come up with a note saying that items 1 & 25 are interfering with each other, since I don't know how to solve that ( hard as I try) I desided to "nail" the weights in the position they would always be at, and sure enougth it move like it was suposed to. You guys seem to much better with it than me, that is why I posted the question to see if any of you guys could give more input or if you saw the possibility of working. By the way, I only used four images to create that animation.
Trev:
You are absolutely right, the center of gravity is below the axis and slightly to the left, I was trying to achieve an action similar to a heavy cam, I'm attaching a picture to show you what my thinking is, I hope you don't ask me make an animation of it :-)
Are you folowing this Ken?
Oprimido:
Glad to hear you understood it.
Hasta luego viejo!
Turulato
Well since I'm not real proefficient using WM2D I ecounter a few problems that I'm sure you are familiar with, I could draw the weight assemblies and with two or three assemblies in place it would rotate and drop but when adding more than that it would come up with a note saying that items 1 & 25 are interfering with each other, since I don't know how to solve that ( hard as I try) I desided to "nail" the weights in the position they would always be at, and sure enougth it move like it was suposed to. You guys seem to much better with it than me, that is why I posted the question to see if any of you guys could give more input or if you saw the possibility of working. By the way, I only used four images to create that animation.
Trev:
You are absolutely right, the center of gravity is below the axis and slightly to the left, I was trying to achieve an action similar to a heavy cam, I'm attaching a picture to show you what my thinking is, I hope you don't ask me make an animation of it :-)
Are you folowing this Ken?
Oprimido:
Glad to hear you understood it.
Hasta luego viejo!
Turulato
- Attachments
-
- This is what I was trying to achieve and keeping that arrangement perpetualy.
Inventors, Masters of Creative and independent thought