Has An Important Property Of Fluids Been Overlooked ?

[rlortie]

I put 150 lbs of weight on my wheel for a flywheel effect, I did not yet have hooked up to the generator which was suppose to be my break, I let spin for about five minutes, in trying to stop it, the cogs jammed against the levers. 1/2 inch bolts twisted splitting the 2/4s. I was really wasn't ready to run it, when I broke it. I had made it in a tent off of my deck, I am currently making a hard cover roof, to rebuild it under. My patent attorney said I could not patent what Bessler did, so I'm making changes. In the Bessler tradition I feel I'm giving clues, that is why I'm on here

“As an empirical guide, shear strengths of carbon steel fasteners may be assumed to be approximately 60 percent of their specified minimum tensile strengths. For example, an SAE grade 5 hex cap screw has a specified minimum tensile strength of 120,000 psi. Therefore, for design purposes, its shear strength could be reasonably assumed to be 70,000 psi.�

I find it rather hard to believe that your machine could come close to developing enough torque to shear a grade #2 1/2" bolt or cap screw. Secondly I do not recommend spruce for use in pivoting or fulcrum loaded stress. If you wish to use a light or commonly referred to soft would, fir, hemlock or white pine, would be my choice.

I also believe you have a very dimwitted patent attorney. Bessler never patented anything and no one knows what he had worthy of patenting.

Ralph

[AB Hammer]

So please, FcDriver (ABHammer and others)
-Seriously meant for the sake of your own safety and your residents-

Implement a recoverable fail safe;
Implement a last resort fail safe;
Avoid situations of panic;
Reflect on safety protocols.

I personally only build handheld mechanisms or desktop-size proof of concept models, with weights of only a couple of grams...
My fail-safe is simply a blanket (unfortunately never used).

In case of Fcdriver:
At least a table on its side plus a Duck and Hide procedure.
And because of gravity: Perhaps a way to tip it over to its side.
(I wonder what would happen to JimMitch's machine when spun out of control)

ME

I understand your concern and can assure you that I do take safety seriously. Trip hammers are not called widow makers for nothing and an ill build wheel can be one if not careful if! figured out how one works. Also my builds can be carried for show purpose.

[Fcdriver]

I did not say it sheared the bolt, I said it twisted, inside of the 2/4,, and yes there is a lot of torque, stopping a 5 ft lever with a weight on the end, enough to raise a stomper!

[ME]

Well, ok.
Don't mind me in trying to point towards a possible overlooked important property of fluids, especially the red kind.

At least AB Hammer figured out some rule of thumb.

[AB Hammer]

ME posted

At least AB Hammer figured out some rule of thumb.

Funny you bring up thumb. OUCH!!!

[Art]

Fc,

I wish my problem was stopping the wheel ! : )

What is the overall diameter of the wheel you're working on ? Am I right in assuming it is about 10ft Diameter ?

A 5 minute run in IMO is right on the borderline of a perpetuating system , especially if it didn't appear to have slowed considerably before you tried to stop it ! .

What sort of input force did you give it to start the "flywheel" spinning ?, ie was it a maximum effort push or a 'two finger job' ?

.

[Fcdriver]

It is a seven ft diameter wheel, with 4 1/2 ft arm, I did not push the wheel I let go, of a arm, which raised another to its point of drop. I had been using steel cable to keep the wheel from turning, by a loop over a bolt, but it had come loose

[Art]

Sounds very promising !

If your wheel needs external stampers to work , then I don't think Besslers diagrams or explainations of the MT's would prevent a patent application because Bessler never made any claims that they were required to produce his machine .

You should be able to patent the process and linkages required to produce the process , because nowhere is this already laid out that we're aware of otherwise it would already have been built.

If you can rebuild the machine and show that it works with 100% certainty then you need to concentrate on getting a competent patent lawyer to draw up a 'leakproof' patent application. The wording and claims made in a patent are critical and need careful competent expertise.

You need the patent attorney to be aware that you will expect them to be able to defend the patent , because as regular as night follows day , it will be challenged .

Good luck with the rebuild , - looking forward to hearing about progress.

[Unbalanced]

A simple water displacement experiment:

Here I have suspended a Ziplock bag filled with water in a steel basket suspended in the center so as to balance.

I then added three, one pound weights to one side of the fulcrum.

The water displaced by the three weights was displaced predominantly to the other side of the balance point and the balance was maintained.

This was the predicted outcome.

Rather than pressurizing an incompressible fluid, this concept displaces the fluid so that a balance is maintained.

[Unbalanced]

Bag balanced no weights

[Unbalanced]

The object of this simple experiment was to demonstrate to myself that a weight could be parked on a body of liquid, on the ascending side of a closed wheel system and simultaneously have it's weight transferred across the fulcrum and spread out so that there was no positive or negative influence of the weight on either side of the fulcrum at the equator, while the weight was being lifted to the top of the wheel.

It seems to me that the engineering can be easily worked out such that all the weights on the ascending side are being lifted with no negative torque being applied to the wheel.

If as Fletcher proposes, the weights leave their resting place on the liquid at the top of the cycle and are allowed to fall into retaining baskets (an inch or two) where their mass will produce positive torque on the descending side, that we have here the necessary ingredients for a self-perpetuating rotation.

[Trevor Lyn Whatford]

Hi Fletcher,

one way you could improve your chances, is with a circular reservoir with multi weights around the outer edges the fluid inside will act like a slip ring even if it is heavier at the bottom it does not take much to turn as my wheel experiments on a round reservoirs has shown, with that said there are still of lot of problems to sort out and do not think it would work, but at least you would keep it nice and compact.

Edit, while you are about it put your round weights on a small off set arm and have your membrane section half round cups to cup and balance the weights on ascending side, and fall out of the cup on the descending side, you are only looking at millimetres just to clear the cups! this is your concept and any input I gladly give! you are winning me over the more I think about it, its is a good concept win or lose, hope its a win though, I have not got 300 years left on the clock!

Edit, a circular reservoir with more like sticking out shapes on the outer edges to allow platforms for the weights to work, a bit like a star, because its full it will still be easy to turn!

Regards Trevor

Hi Unbalanced,

More experiments will show you the need for one reservoir for the whole wheel, and the sticking out membranes sections will need to be shaped (cup like) to hold the weights through the various angles on the ascending side of the wheel until the weights fall off enough to just clear the membrane on the descending side.

Separate reservoirs will have the column of fluid effect, this is reduced with one whole wheel reservoir because the wheel slips over the column of fluid and does not agitate the fluid very much. There are still one or two things to sort out, mainly the membrane sections, and making the wheel reservoir watertight, and the weights will need to be quite heavy.

One more thing, the wheel reservoir will need a sealed bearing pipe connection about the axle, that is opened ended, and the fluid filled pipe extends higher than the device. Fluid does not like to be seal and compressed, because it starts to act like a solid.

[Fcdriver]

I ran test with three inch pvc, 24 inch tees on each end with 48 inch in between. Put them parallel just left of center to 2:00, just right of center to 8:00. Could not get the fluid to move fast enough, the centrifugal force slowed the movement too much, so it would not drain back fast enough on the lift side. Thought about putting a air relief line inside, but never did.

[Trevor Lyn Whatford]

Did Bessler get there first? Take another look at MT 108, but change the air for fluid & fluid for air.

http://www.orffyre.com/MTHard108.jpg

Edit, I wonder why Bessler showed cups when there was weighted bellow designs using the same principle prior to Besslers drawings, IMMSMC, and most, if not all the other fluid and air reservoirs show bellows in the MT drawings.

[Fcdriver]

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ON_irzFAU9c