NEWS FLASH!! Fcdriver has a working wheel!!!!

[Fcdriver]

Exactly Ralph. What FC describes are the infant ideas one has when they first start looking into PM. We soon learn these principles do not work.

I don't beleive FC has a working wheel, and I think he is exaggerating/lying when he describes it. I suspect there will be more excuses to come.

No my system does not follow anything by either your earlier work with a cam, or anything about cams as far as I can tell, by reviewing pictures files on this site. I do separate the the lift stroke and downward stroke by use of a cam, but I use the cam to slow the rate while using the mechanical advantage of a incline plane, in a rotational method. But the downward stroke uses a different cam further from center to move the wheel

[Fletcher]

Frank .. I look forward to 'seeing is believing' your "Bessler's Wheel on Steroids".

IMO, it is hard to misinterpret it otherwise than as a self sustaining wheel able to do external work, just as Bessler's appeared to be.

[Grimer]

Exactly Ralph. What FC describes are the infant ideas one has when they first start looking into PM. We soon learn these principles do not work.

I don't beleive FC has a working wheel, and I think he is exaggerating/lying when he describes it. I suspect there will be more excuses to come.

No my system does not follow anything by either your earlier work with a cam, or anything about cams as far as I can tell, by reviewing pictures files on this site. I do separate the the lift stroke and downward stroke by use of a cam, but I use the cam to slow the rate while using the mechanical advantage of a incline plane, in a rotational method. But the downward stroke uses a different cam further from center to move the wheel

Sounds plausible to me. Bessler felt his wheel was pretty simple - which is why he was so neurotic about it - so I think there are probably many different solutions. A bit like the external/internal combustion engine in fact.

I eagerly look forward to your video.

[WaltzCee]

I am about to yank your chains, dogs.

Bessler wasn't the front dog of his day.

At times when I'm cruising around the beltway I drop a gear and hit the throttle. My front wheel pulls up off the ground and I fly. Oh, my God, what a feeling. I wish I could bottle that. I'd become the billionaire.

While physics aims to discover universal laws, its theories lie in explicit domains of applicability.

Now, you front dogs parade your superior intellect and act as if you know what's what. Yet you still haven't managed to explain what Bessler did.

Is it beyond your simple minds to believe there is more to the idea that bessler saw? Or, that he really didn't disclose all he saw?

What say you?

[Tarsier79]

FC. I wasn't referring to a cam. There is no energy gain in "mechanical advantage" using an inclined plane, or any other form of basic leverage, or trading "height for width", as some here would call it.

If you did have a working wheel, current physics would not describe it. You would need to describe a physical interaction with a new formula, perhaps even containing a 3rd derivative;) Why?....

[AB Hammer]

This may help out with the understanding.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c3I2zeoUbzg

[Fcdriver]

Bessler used a shell cam,(incline plane) to use 360 degrees to lift, a lever, dropping it on the rim. As the arm dropped, it follows the cam down. But not pushing the cam down, because the weight was on the rim. The wheel was hollow, and nothing but a cam device, a transfer point. He used the A device, using the cam, to push against the the stompers, or pump, by cog timing, in one direction, while lifting the weight in the other. The cam gives a 20 to 1 lift ratio, the leverage, is from pushing down further from center. The weights or mover was not rotating around on the wheel.

[ruggerodk]

Is it beyond your simple minds to believe there is more to the idea that bessler saw? Or, that he really didn't disclose all he saw?

What say you?

Njaaa....I have a simple mind and a psysic IQ around 20.
Though, I must acknowledge, that the man himself said he'd shown his principle in plain sight.
And looking at the Merseburg drawings, I sincerly believe him ;-)

regards Ruggero ;-)

[Grimer]

This may help out with the understanding.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c3I2zeoUbzg

Brilliant find, ABH.

I believe I understand how it works.

If I'm right then it is indeed a gravity engine.

Basically it comes to this. Part of the wheel is unbalanced. That part operating the spring is an obvious candidate but there is probably something on the main wheel which is unbalancing it. This means that we have a 360° pendulum superimposed on a flywheel. This is putting energy into the spring when the out of balance weight is around the 7.30 position, say and taking energy out of the spring when the pin is at the 10.30 position.

Well forum members, what's your opinion?...:-)

P.S. I just read some of the comments. The following seems to have it almost right.

r mendes2 10 months ago

If this is real here is how it would work, first we know we can harvest gravity to do work, see fm chakalis see milkovic oscillator and skinner gravity engine. all of them using spinning or oscillating mass. so here we have the flywheel, mass spinning, and we have the off balance weight at the end of the crank, the flywheel wants to keep spinning and on the down stroke of the weight is when we do the work of compressing the spring. then because gravity has entered the system it takes less force pushing back up from the spring to keep it rotating. gravity has been harvested to do enough work to maintain the rotation.

All he's missed out is the differential speed of the imposed 360° pendulum.

[AB Hammer]

Bessler used a shell cam,(incline plane) to use 360 degrees to lift, a lever, dropping it on the rim. As the arm dropped, it follows the cam down. But not pushing the cam down, because the weight was on the rim. The wheel was hollow, and nothing but a cam device, a transfer point. He used the A device, using the cam, to push against the the stompers, or pump, by cog timing, in one direction, while lifting the weight in the other. The cam gives a 20 to 1 lift ratio, the leverage, is from pushing down further from center. The weights or mover was not rotating around on the wheel.

Frank Driver

I have to disagree that Bessler used a snail cam due to all the witnesses accounts. What I have found has no snail cam to jar actions. The jarring is to violent for long term use IMHO. It is more of an elegant concert of actions and reactions under control. Not to mention reversible. ;-)

[Fcdriver]

This may help out with the understanding.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c3I2zeoUbzg

very simple but yes, instead of a crank, a cam, with a different leverage point for pushing. The cam slows the rate of lift, reducing the force, so the two forces are not equal.

[Fcdriver]

Bessler used a shell cam,(incline plane) to use 360 degrees to lift, a lever, dropping it on the rim. As the arm dropped, it follows the cam down. But not pushing the cam down, because the weight was on the rim. The wheel was hollow, and nothing but a cam device, a transfer point. He used the A device, using the cam, to push against the the stompers, or pump, by cog timing, in one direction, while lifting the weight in the other. The cam gives a 20 to 1 lift ratio, the leverage, is from pushing down further from center. The weights or mover was not rotating around on the wheel.

Frank Driver

I have to disagree that Bessler used a snail cam due to all the witnesses accounts. What I have found has no snail cam to jar actions. The jarring is to violent for long term use IMHO. It is more of an elegant concert of actions and reactions under control. Not to mention reversible. ;-)

It would not jar or jerk, it is very smooth. The number of arms where one or two are always pushing down, while others are lifting, slowly, it would only jerk if using one arm.

[ME]

AB Hammer, nice video...
I guess the flywheel would run longer when it didn't have the spring and offset weight.
But as it has that spring and offset weight, it puts that spring into resonance making it a speed regulator.

The speed of the wheel pushes the spring down and looses (relatively) a lot of energy but that's part of the initial push. Once in resonance the spring is already down when the cam comes along, but just in time to push it back up.
As the wheel obviously (?) would slow down the amplitude of the spring gets a little less, and more friction goes to the cam - but still able to push the spring down again.... until it can't.

[Fcdriver]

To make it reversible is not hard, but it cuts the lift in half.

[raj]

The weight in the video demonstration does not contribute in any way to the motion of the flywheel.

Simply, the flywheel cam, when rotating counter-clockwise, presses on the leaf spring which springs back after downwards release, in time to jerk back and in return push the cam counter-clockwise.

Where does the device get its input energy is DEBATABLE!!!

Raj