Perpetual Motion is Impossible

[nicbordeaux]

Walt, thx for your invaluable thoughts. This thread started out as "PM is impossible", that entitles me to put in a quick word, which I did. Your proposition to do a drawing is welcome, it might make a refreshing change. End of matter, unless pursued in the manner in which you have initiated it, in which case can somebody tell me where the "ignore" list is please ? Have a great day, and a Happy New year.

[oldNick]

If I use springs (not the clock type) to drive my wheel, instead of weights (using gravity) would it then be deemed perpetual motion?.

I wish a happy and prosperous New Year (2016) to all.

Nick

[Grimer]

Your assertion is incorrect. For example, consider a pipe descending into the ocean with an osmotic membrane on the down end. Fresh water weighs less than salt, about 3%. If the column is long enough the weight of fresh water will be such that the pressure differential establishes flow across the membrane. You have a perpetual fresh water fountain. Takes a long pipe, admittedly, but it IS PERPETUAL

That' interesting. I didn't know that. Have you got a link.

Presumably one could get the same effect with a centrifuge.
Mmm... Maybe that's a way to build Jim's wheel. :-)

[nicbordeaux]

"If I use springs (not the clock type) to drive my wheel, instead of weights (using gravity) would it then be deemed perpetual motion?.
"

Yes.

[oldNick]

Thanks for the reply "nic", I have work to do.

Nick

[Mikhail]

Who dares to put in doubt the engine to perpetual movement ??
The Perpetuum Mobile is well and truly possible small and large, fast and slow, complicates and simple, white, black, blue and green. :)
It can be used to produce the mechanical energy and electrical, to propel of boats through the oceans or the trains on the rails, trucks and cars, mopeds and wheelchairs, and even the airplanes of tourism.
Aisle the guys, put you to reflect, the future is to you.

Qui ose mettre en doute le moteur à mouvement perpétuel ??
Le perpetuum mobile est bel et bien possible petit et grand, rapide et lents, complique et simple, blanc, noir, bleu et vert... :)
Il peut être utilisé pour produire l'énergie mécanique et électrique, pour propulser de bateaux a travers des océans ou des trains sur les rails, des camions et les voitures, des mobylettes et fauteuils roulants, et même les avions de tourisme.
Allée les gars, mettez vous à réfléchir, l'avenir est à vous.

[Fcdriver]

"If I use springs (not the clock type) to drive my wheel, instead of weights (using gravity) would it then be deemed perpetual motion?.
"

Yes.

Look at a compound bow for a spring type, where the spring tension does increase but is steady or constant

[WaltzCee]

Walt, thx for your invaluable thoughts. This thread started out as "PM is impossible", that entitles me to put in a quick word, which I did. Your proposition to do a drawing is welcome, it might make a refreshing change. End of matter, unless pursued in the manner in which you have initiated it, in which case can somebody tell me where the "ignore" list is please ? Have a great day, and a Happy New year.

no, no, no. wrong. wrong. wrong. Don't tell me how this thread started out. I started this thread.

that entitles me to put in a quick word

entitled? Oh, Mighty God. I'm in the presence of an entitled one!

You certainly have your way of seeing things, yet you might take a step back and see things differently. Your call.

Once again, I'm going to attempt to refocus you ADD ones to the point. Now, I'm not going to rely on you to follow a link. I'm going to post the whole thing right here.

Thus, machines which extract energy from finite sources will not operate indefinitely, because they are driven by the energy stored in the source, which will eventually be exhausted. A common example is devices powered by ocean currents, whose energy is ultimately derived from the Sun, which itself will eventually burn out. Machines powered by more obscure sources have been proposed, but are subject to the same inescapable laws, and will eventually wind down.

How in the world do you propose to make a thing that is never ending in a world that will?

Please. Do you think I'll believe anything you say?

Now, you had a request of me, nicbordeaux. I feel obliged to help you, caged one. Your question:

can somebody tell me where the "ignore" list is please ?

I found it. Yes it did. It's very close to your frontal lobe down under very close to your colon.

You're welcome.

[nicbordeaux]

This is an utterly silly and pointless question altogether. You are trying to define something yet to be invented according to knowledge which we do not have, eg what "time" and "eternity" mean, if such a thing as eternity does exist. In English, that would be splitting hairs so minute that one could only theorize their existence. In French, it is known as (translated and censured) "B...ing flies"

Bring on the builds, show us some mechanical action :-)

[ruggerodk]

in Danish "Flue kne....ri" ;-)

[WaltzCee]

You are trying to define something yet to be invented according to knowledge which we do not have, eg what "time" and "eternity" mean, if such a thing as eternity does exist. :-)

You are a liar. This isn't my definition. Infinity is a well defined concept in mathematics. I didn't do this.

Don't accuse me of this concept. It never was my idea.

Would that it were, yet I'm not that smart.

[nicbordeaux]

Hemorrhoids are a well defined concept in medicine. That doesn't mean that everybody suffers from them. If you want to check the veracity of that statement, you can buy an endoscope camera for your smartphone for less than 10 bucks (eBay). Check it out.

[WaltzCee]

humm, need to read this . .. .. .

[WaltzCee]

Jim, what's the result of your formula when you normalize to a rotating frame of reference?

I guess/hope you have some precautions in case your model spins out of control?

I want to caution the gentle reader of this thread, there are blatant expressions of mathematics contained herein.

Enter at eWe(R) own risk. You agree to hold the OP harmless.

[WaltzCee]

I always thought that a change in momentum (velocity) equals the energy.
INT(p) dv = INT(m * v) dv = 0.5 * m * v^2

Shocking, I say. Simply shocking.