Mt 125

[AB Hammer]

Nice link JL but this is MT125. 2 squeezable bags on bellows boards and a tube full of liquid except one bag squeezed empty by weights on levers in a drums structure to hopefully spin. I just don't see the reasoning why all the extras, making it over complicated. IMHO

[AB Hammer]

double post

[james.lindgard]

@All,
Have started making the new pieces for the new bellow assembly. And since it will be using about 8 ounces of over balance at 10 inches, I need to align the axles a lot better. I'm using a split axle which is why the problem. I'm going to rethink how I can get them aligned properly. I may try roller bearings as well.

@AB Hammer, not even close. You should study hydraulic theory some. Simple observation.

[james.lindgard]

AB Hammer,
Do you know any math at all ? I remember when you used to make fun of me for posting it. With hydraulic theory and how I am applying it to the bellows that I am building dictates what you consider a complex design. The design is rather basic and is what's needed.
I'll give you a simple math problem. PiR^2*20 with R being 0.75. Then multiply by 1.73 = mass.
Then mass/PiR^2 * 9 and that's the amount of force hydraulics requires. :-)

edited to correct mistake; AB Hammer, to take into account the ratio between the pressure head and the piston that moves, it's 9/PiR^2 * mass = force.
I'll give you the simple answer, if the piston is 3 times the surface area as the pressure head, then it's the mass of the pressure times 3 equals force.
Although I think at some point you should open a math book or something.

[AB Hammer]

LOL I haven't needed anything but basic math and a bit of algebra and my algebra is a bit rusty now days. Of course I have told you this a long time ago. But I do have a talent of seeing everything in 3 dimensions and in my eyes I can take a 2 dimensional picture and see it in 3 dimensions and it allows me to triangulate naturally. It is just the way my brain is wired, so to speak. Remember the fold test in the military? I never got one wrong and have finished long before time runs out. I guess that helps make me a good sculptor with metal and more. That is why I have used the term my math for it can't be taught for it is a talent.

I have no need for hydraulic systems at this time, but if I find myself in need I can use a page like this for quick information, or I go to my book shelf.

http://www.enerpac.com/en-us/basic-hydraulics

I don't see where this is going to help you in your build of MT125 for it is the simplest form of hydraulics, but it might help you figure out what may have gone wrong.

First you need to know your parameters, for you can't see everything if you only look in one direction.

[james.lindgard]

LMAO!!!! I remember your coffee post. You know, I need to show you I can do simple. But you really don't understand how to calculate work or anything else it seems. You will talk about how good you are though. :-D

edited to add; AB Hammer, I think that is a classic post. And yet you can't discuss Mt 39, Mt 40 or Mt 125. What you discuss is your opinion without discussing mechanics. I think that is what's called disrupting a forum. Keep Bessler's work buried. Does it bother you to think that Bessler was successful ? I think you might be jealous of him.

[AB Hammer]

LMAO JL

The coffee math was simple basic math but there was a twist of understanding you parameters. You refused to do it and failed in the true lesson of the coffee.

If you hang your hat on only one hook you will never go out to see what you are missing. Simple words with strong meaning.

You can go back and look at most your post and it is math math math. The warning in life is being to narrow and you will not see or be able to accept anything but what is in your own head.

Yes I know I need to study up my more advanced math but I have to have the time and that will be after I finish fighting with the VA and the finish of my wheels for I have all I need to know for this at this time.

Alan

[james.lindgard]

AB Hammer,
That wouldn't work. If you read my previous post, I needed access to the bellow so I could vent it. A wooden cap works just fine. As things are, I am going to be hoping that I am recovered enough from my medical issues to go back to work. I don't get paid unless I work. You don't have to worry about that.

edited to correct spelling

If you where dealing with hydraulic drives or water pumps you would be correct. But you are doing a simple back and forth transfer of fluids. If you had the T in the middle facing to the 3 or the 9 position then turn to plug up and where the pipe is setting at the 3 to 9 position then have the lower bellows bladder expanded and upper one compressed and fill to top of the threads and screw in plug. To empty just reverse these actions. You would have all the fluids you need and less possible leak points.
You may be trying to over engineer this simple system. But that's OK for you are doing the build, and I respect the build.

PS here is a simple device that can be use for bellows for this type of wheel. just use them in pairs.

AB Hammer,
Take a close look at my picture. You are saying in your opinion I can use a simple device that you are suggesting, it is what is in the picture. I built it and posted it. And yet you are suggesting that I repeat what I just did.
I'm not sure how you could have missed that. Kind of why IMHO that you are out to discredit people by disrupting threads.

edited to add what you suggested as mentioned in your quote.

[AB Hammer]

AB Hammer,
Take a close look at my picture. You are saying in your opinion I can use a simple device that you are suggesting, it is what is in the picture. I built it and posted it. And yet you are suggesting that I repeat what I just did.
I'm not sure how you could have missed that. Kind of why IMHO that you are out to discredit people by disrupting threads.

edited to add what you suggested as mentioned in your quote.

No, JL

I am not suggesting you use it. but you could of used it. Anyone who wants to copy MT125 can use it for a quick build test and not take a few years to make a single test like you did.

[james.lindgard]

You were suggesting I use them. This is because I am building new bellows. And I haven't taken years to build anything as you claim. I've worked on Mt 125 for about 2 months. I'm not sure how you get a few years out of that.
Just more disinformation from you.

[AB Hammer]

james.lindgard wrote

You were suggesting I use them. This is because I am building new bellows. And I haven't taken years to build anything as you claim. I've worked on Mt 125 for about 2 months. I'm not sure how you get a few years out of that.
Just more disinformation from you.

OH my mistake. It was the MT127 over 2 years ago. Well it is the same basic approach with just a little difference. But you where also posting about MT125 in the same string and others so it can would be easy for the simple mistake. Here is the string I found this in from 12-23-2013

http://www.woodworkingtalk.com/f9/besslers-wheel-58361/

Also you talked about it in June 2013 and here is the link as you called yourself smith66. One of your many banned names around here.

http://www.besslerwheel.com/forum/download.php?id=12150

I take it your MT127 was a failed? Where would be the video of that test?

[james.lindgard]

edited comment I do think though if forum members are going to be critical of someone showing their work, they need to show their own as well. It does take time to understand Bessler's drawing as actual builds and without math, explaining some things just doesn't matter.
Почему ? Я не буду знать. Basically, if you don't know the language then understanding why certain things in the design are important won't matter.

[james.lindgard]

edited
@All,
Because I make my own bellows, I can math a water port that has a surface area of about 1.75 in^2 which is the same surface area as a 1 1/2 in. dia. pvc pipe. And this allows to me to mate them to bellows that have a surface area of 9 in^2. And this means that if the bellows open by 3 inches, they can hold a little less than 1 lb. of water. And at the same time, they'll fit my wheel.
weighs 2 lbs. and is 1.75 in^2 for a surface area, then if the piston moving has 5 times the surface area, it will require 19 lbs. of force.
With my last set of bellows, using a 1/2 in. dia. pipe would've required 26 lbs. of force to open. With my current bellows, a 1 in. dia. pipe 20 in. tall holds 1.7 lbs. of water. And with a ratio 1:11.5, then 11.5 * 1.7 about 19 lbs. of force as well.
There is a trick that might allow for less force to be used and that is to use a smaller piston. With a piston that is 4 in^2, then less than 9 lbs. of force might be required to open it. If that does work, then the force to open the bellow drops to about 2 1/4 lbs. Why R & D matters.
And with Bessler's drawing, it doesn't show if both parts of the bellow are the same width or not.

[james.lindgard]

The trick with bellows might be a simple one. The diagram shows a bellow with a base that is 4 in. x 4 in. and a top or piston that is 2 in. x 2 in.
Since 2^2 + 4^2 = 20, the average surface area is 10 in^2. And if it is 2 in. tall, it's volume is 20 in.^3 or about 11 ounces of water.
Since the square root of 10 is 3.16, that is the average dimension of the bellow. This type of action is something that I've been trying to figure out. This is because the piston will be above the water port for the bellow. And since it will lift before the sides do, that will be the hope any way.
And to try this, I have to modify the bellows that I am building. Even having a piston or top of the bellow that is 1 1/2 inches in diameter might work because it would match the volume of the water port.
I'm going to stay with a square design though because it will be easier to lay the plastic flat. And if this works, it will be a pretty cool engineering trick.

edited to add; the difference between 3.16^2 and 2^2 is that the latter only requires 40% of the work if this does work. And for gravity power, it could allow for lighter weights on the levers which always helps. I think I might be a little bit excited now. :-)

[james.lindgard]

These are the parts that will shape the bellow. I most likely will make some slightly larger pieces for the top. The reason being the tops will be split in two.
This will allow the plastic to be secured between the 2 top pieces. Where it's base (the large pieces) will be mounted to the bellows base.
I need to be careful doing this because saws and body parts need to stay away from each other. But if my bellows hold 18 in.^3 of water, that will be more than 10 ounces. Am wishing I made this 30 or 40 inches in diameter and who knows, there will be other days.