How much horse power?

[John doe]

Just wondering if anyone has looked at how much horse power besslers wheels made? I realize that many of the accounts vary or were approximations of size weight etc. it occurred to me that this information along with the size of the wheels could shed some light on how he was able to accomplish his amazing feat.
I apologize as a new member ahead of time if this is old news or has already been covered.

[ovyyus]

http://www.besslerwheel.com/wiki/index. ... eel_Output

[Sam Peppiatt]

hp Bessler wheel: Axel 8 inches diameter = 2 feet per rev.
20 rev. per minute = .333 rev. per sec.; .333 rev. x 2 = .666 feet per sec.
.666 feet x 70 lbs. =46.66 foot lbs. per sec.

46.66 divided by 550 = .0848 hp . This would be NET hp gross hp would be more, maybe double. For all of it's size it was a bit wimpy.

But I wouldn't sell it short; you wouldn't believe what an ME could do with it. I have to think it would run circles around a windmill. Sam Peppiatt

[John doe]

Thanks!

[Sam Peppiatt]

John Doe, It's fairly easy to figure out the hp, however their numbers are all over the place. Maybe it was more like 100 lbs.

I should add; 550 foot lbs. per sec. = one hp. (33,000/60) Also the efficiency is difficult to know, if not impossible. Ropes and pulleys are pretty low.

Without modern ball bearings he probably couldn't run with very heavy weights. Friction would have been a major problem. Sam Peppiatt

[Phaedrus]

Wow, is that ever disheartening! Here I had read people saying that if we could solve the Bessler Wheel problem, we could help with the global problem of producing clean energy. I was thinking you could power a small home with a large Bessler Wheel. But now here I find out the largest wheel he ever constructed could barely power a 100W light bulb! Bummer! This seems to really diminish the urgency of finding the answer to this puzzle, since it won't have much practical value. Not that it couldn't lead to more power-producing wheels. But if the numbers at http://www.besslerwheel.com/wiki/index. ... eel_Output are correct, Bessler's route to "free energy" is perhaps not the best route to be following...

[John doe]

I think your missing the point entirely phaedrus. The fact that he was able to accomplish what no one else in history has been able to and most physicists say is impossible is an incredible feat and yes it is exactly the point that understanding how he was able to do this most likely would lead to other possibly larger leaps in clean energy. Just the fact that it's possible would open up a whole other area a physics and divert god knows how much brain power that would otherwise be diverted to other scientific pursuits. Not only that it would lead to science reevaluating 300 years of science.

[AB Hammer]

Wow, is that ever disheartening! Here I had read people saying that if we could solve the Bessler Wheel problem, we could help with the global problem of producing clean energy. I was thinking you could power a small home with a large Bessler Wheel. But now here I find out the largest wheel he ever constructed could barely power a 100W light bulb! Bummer! This seems to really diminish the urgency of finding the answer to this puzzle, since it won't have much practical value. Not that it couldn't lead to more power-producing wheels. But if the numbers at http://www.besslerwheel.com/wiki/index. ... eel_Output are correct, Bessler's route to "free energy" is perhaps not the best route to be following...

Greetings Phaedrus

Never fear! What Bessler did was demonstration wheels and any good businessman would always hold back on the full capability for future purpose. Not to mention once rediscovered there will be advancements of what can be done, due to thousands of engineers and such working to improve it. To note power, I had a 2 ft wheel nearly bust my thumb off equivalent to a 20oz hammer hit.

[Sam Peppiatt]

Phaedrus, Don't despair. Once the wheel is working on gravity, it can be placed in a centrifugal force field. It's easy to get 1000 Gs, 1000 times gravity. You can't imagine how powerful it would be.

Also, it's a big mistake to perceive his wheel exactly as it was. Who knows the power it would have, with better bearings, and a lot heaver weights, and a couple of wheels in tandem. It would run your house for you; don't think it wouldn't! With insane reliability.
Sam Peppiatt

[ME]

Currently we can capture about 100 to 250 watts per square solar-panel-meter on a sunny day.
When a working perpetual machine could generate 100 watts per cubic meter (stacked & packed) even on rainy days; I think that would be enormous.

When building some PM-pyramids at deserted locations, I'm wondering about the kinds of anomalies it could induce (let's find out)

[AB Hammer]

Sam Peppiatt, quote

Phaedrus, Don't despair. Once the wheel is working on gravity, it can be placed in a centrifugal force field. It's easy to get 1000 Gs, 1000 times gravity. You can't imagine how powerful it would be.

Also, it's a big mistake to perceive his wheel exactly as it was. Who knows the power it would have, with better bearings, and a lot heaver weights, and a couple of wheels in tandem. It would run your house for you; don't think it wouldn't! With insane reliability.
Sam Peppiatt

Greetings Sam

You are absolutely correct. Here is my design of such a machine with one of my wheel designs installed. I do have better versions now since this one I did around 8 years ago. Ralph has a copy of one of my original drawings of this that I sent him around the same time. But since you opened the can of worms why not show for illustration.

[Fcdriver]

Power? Whether it be a gasoline high rpm engine or a low rpm diesel, to a electric motor, different methods are used to define power. In retrieving power from a gravity wheel, in terms of power as we currently use it, which is instant. A gravity wheel will have its own method of measure. A gravity wheel attached to a system similar to a solar panel battery system, will power a house!

[ME]

different methods are used to define power

This implies the definition is wrong !

Different methods are used to compare the same kinds of machines, hopeless when comparing things across.
What's a "horsepower" anyway ?

The reason why SI-units are invented:
Power[Watt] = Work[J] / Time[s] = m*g*h/t
Power[Watt]= Torque[Nm] * AngularVelocity[rad/s]

It means, for example, "Power" should be able to lift some weight a certain height in a certain amount of time.

[Fcdriver]

A simple example would be, replacing a gasoline motor on a lawn mower. It takes a 5 horsepower gasoline motor, but only a 1 horse power electric motor to do the exact same amount of work. This is because of the torque differences. HP vs torgue. Is power hp? Or is power Torque? To define power as work done, vs just hp.

[ME]

I'm not a Mechanical Engineer.
That example is not simple, and makes no sense.
So when there's another lawn mower working on air pressure, and another on hydraulics; then what does the measure of a "horsepower" mean? Zip!

For comparison reasons as a consumer I would like to introduce a new unit:
Which one mows my lawn in the units (GrassAmount/second)*(LawnArea/minute)/(Sparetime)

The base unit of a Horsepower (which ever you choose) should be Watts:
a force going at a certain speed (a PM-wheel);
volts going at a certain amperage (household usage);
Effort having a certain flow (pumping water);
or amount of Work per time (doing other stuff).