Truth or fiction?

[james.lindgard]

Thanks KAS.
I guess another way of looking at it is that it would enhance the momentum of the pendulum. When the pendulum swings to the right, the bearing is "up" and rolls outward. This is when the pendulum swings left. And when the pendulum swings left, the cross bar rotates so the extension lands on the stop, etc. is held in the down position by the fulcrum of the pendulum. This is where either a flexible shaft for the pendulum or the pendulum's shaft having some slip will let it swing while the bearing rolls down into the v of the bent lever.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lZTaX4u-Z_k

edited

[james.lindgard]

@ KAS,
this is a simple idea that could work, even out of water. One reason why I think Mt 125 will work. If a 7 lb. weight draws 1 lb of water into a bellow, is 8 lbs. more than 7 lbs. ? I think so.
Yet building and trying to work with others in a perpetual motion forum is frowned upon for some reason.
With using air to create buoyancy, could work and if so, people do spend money on their aquariums. Still, if a lead weight can move in water, then one method of perpetual motion could be realized. I'm just not sure if lead sinks in water or is affected by gravity. ;-)

[james.lindgard]

deleted, duplicate post

[james.lindgard]

Out of water, iffy. In water, when a bellow expands then the area of the bellow including it's weight is considered. Out of water, the weight moves toward center and since lead is denser than water, doubtful it would work.
In water, 1 or 2 lb. weights might work. Just think of it as moving a piston. It is strange though that in water it could work while out of water it wouldn't.

[agor95]

The design of this device has merit. [Image james_lindgard post 14th April 2016]

As to this implementation I can not say. Building and seeing in front of your own eyes is the only real validation.

However we can learn to look at this design as it is.

1. We have a revolving frame. The ramp that revolves a few degrees.
2. Then there is an arm component that turns in the rotating frame.
3. Also there is a ball that spins. to store energy PE to KE.

None of these components are being used properly IMHO?

Each part has it's own properties and each part is valid.
It is the interaction that is worthy of merit.

[james.lindgard]

@agor95,
One thing I kind of wondered is in the instance of a flywheel. A pendulum is similar. If a flywheel or other such force acts only in the clockwise direction, could it allow for the weight to roll down ? There are such things as centrifugal clutches that can be engaged and disengaged.
This would mean that when the bearing is at it's furthest point away from the pivot of the long lever that it also accelerates something else.
Kind of food for thought.

[agor95]

Here is something to wonder about - this should help people to see

A swimmer swims, a jumper jumps
The sleeper sleeps, a talker talks.
The wind blows, the fire smokes….
A catcher catch, a thrower throws

John Collins "PM; An Ancient Mystery Solved?", p.169:

A wheel appears on the scene.
Is it really a wheel, for it does not have a normal rim.

It revolves, but without wheels inside or outside, and without weights, wind or springs.
Bessler is not calling his device a wheel

The order is a hint that action of each should be focused on, look hard, you will miss the truth or fiction.

I will put this on the M. Turbine Q&A topic. Then this topic can roll-on.

Seen sideways or full-face it is as bright as a peacock's tail,

It turns to the right and the left;
it spins in either direction, laden or empty.

[agor95]

revolves

With regards to this rocker device and Bessler's clues.

A revolving frame, in this case an arm, has two main action properties.

Friction & Moment of Inertial [MoI]

Once energy is put into the rotating frame it will continue until friction
brings is back to agree with the outer 'Frame of Reference'.

Torque is how the outside world interacts within it's 'Frame of Reference'.

There are 3 sources of Torque:

1. The weight on the left.
It would be better if this pulled the arm up leaving a slight slope.
The weight should be resting on the base to achieve this result.

2. The ball should start rolling down this slope near the pivot to the end.
In a modified version

3. As we see the CW rotation is stopped by the Torque supplied by the arm hitting the base.

What is of merit; energy is required to change MoI.
P. Energy is supplied by the weight. Also P. Energy comes from the Ball.

The earth supplies K. Energy to stop it's rotation.

This is in terms of the 'Rotating Frame of Reference'.

People pass by change of momentum of the earth
as it is big and we are standing on it.

We live in earth's 'Frame of Reference'.

On this basis; the class of this device, were the energy source is the earth's momentum, is a Momentum. Turbine.

P.S. The modern terms of Perpetual Motion demands a closed system.
This system is open due to it's external energy source.
Sorry, we live in the 21st century. In 1712 you can call it a PM Machine.

[james.lindgard]

Here is something to wonder about - this should help people to see

A swimmer swims, a jumper jumps
The sleeper sleeps, a talker talks.
The wind blows, the fire smokes….
A catcher catch, a thrower throws

John Collins "PM; An Ancient Mystery Solved?", p.169:

A wheel appears on the scene.
Is it really a wheel, for it does not have a normal rim.

It revolves, but without wheels inside or outside, and without weights, wind or springs.
Bessler is not calling his device a wheel

The order is a hint that action of each should be focused on, look hard, you will miss the truth or fiction.

I will put this on the M. Turbine Q&A topic. Then this topic can roll-on.

Seen sideways or full-face it is as bright as a peacock's tail,

It turns to the right and the left;
it spins in either direction, laden or empty.

agor95,
This is where I am going with my Mt 125 build. The "pipe" the water will run through will be the rim itself. Bessler did "admit" to using weights. I think his saying he didn't use them was to play with peoples' minds.
If a ratchet type device is used, then the wheel could rotate in either direction. This is because the levers would apply their force to the opposite set of bellows if the direction of rotation was changed.
By the way, a swimmer can't swim without water, I think. And with 4 bellows, 4 levers working in pairs of 2 as with my Mt 125 build would be used just as Bessler drew them :-)

Jim

[agor95]

@Jim

You are correct, he was stating weights were not used as power in a swiss clock. Were they drop on a rope to supply energy; by loss of hight.

Weights were used in another way.

[james.lindgard]

This is something anyone can try. The 2 weights equal the weight of the washers. The spring on the left is what the frame lands on. When the long lever tries to lift the short lever, it slows quite a bit. Having a counter balanced weight might help it to maintain more momentum. If so, the spring will help to accelerate it in the clock wise direction.
The spring on the right side is attached to the frame itself. When the extension lands on it's stop, the counter balanced weights will keep spinning and contact the spring. This will help it to rotate the long lever in the clockwise direction so the bearing can roll down the ramp.
In this manner, the counter balanced arm will be accelerated in both the clockwise and counter clockwise direction because there will be an over balance in both directions. Will it work ? Doubtful but might be interesting to watch.

@Argo, I think Bessler realized how much torque or force a pendulum generated. At the time (the generation before him), Newton and Leibniz were very much into momentum. And with a pendulum, when ever it struck an escarpment, it allowed the pendulum's weight to drop a small distance. This accelerated the pendulum if ever so slightly. He possibly realized that a pendulum could perform work in other ways as well.

[agor95]

The Rocker Device

Both the pendulum and springs have there place in the future.

Hint

Imaging flicking a small WHIP on a table. Watch how the whip rolls out, as it tappers, to it's end.

The whip's handle is the main pivot section and the whip's cord is the next section.

[james.lindgard]

agor95,
with the springs, when the rocker device is rotating clockwise, it would allow for momentum to be transferred from it to the cross bar/lever. Then after it has rotated as much as possible in the clockwise direction, the spring would expand and help rotate it in the counter clockwise direction. If this second part happens and allows the cross bar/lever to rotate in the counter clockwise direction losing little if any energy to the rocker device, then it would have a chance of working. The momentum developed in the counter clockwise direction does need to be used to lift th bearing and the extension that it rides on.

[james.lindgard]

AB Hammer,
I'll only make this offer once. If you build this and get it to work, we split the patent rights and money 50/50. If people decide to help you, equal shares. This prevents any arguing over money or credit. And this offer is rescinded at 12:00 EST. 25 Apr 2016.
With Bessler's "lever', the main lever on infinite Oscillation will drop 1 inch.
And if the weight where the washers are have a little more than 3 times the weight of what is on Bessler's lever, it will lift it. As for the weight of the bearing ? It would need to weigh less than 1/6th of the weight where the washers would be located.
It is a machine and would take some work to build. Kind of why if it works the way I think it will, it could be worth a little something.

edited to add: I thought I would mention that the washers could hoist the weight on Bessler's lever as it lifts the bearing. What would allow for this to work is what my video shows, a 1lb. weight can generate over 3.5 lbs. of force. This would be one way of putting that advantage to work.

[Andyb]

Hi all,bessler did say it will run with or with out weights, this in my mind says the frameworks that hold the weights still create the imbalance and lift needed to drive the wheel ,adding the weights just created more torque ,the stuff we all want imho ,hope this helps.