Polymath

[ovyyus]

There are several doctors out there claiming if you change your diet, you can cure all sorts of diseases.

Perhaps these 'something that works' treatments are just ideas or concepts and not actual cures? Surely not.

[daxwc]

Some medical cures work as long as you believe them to work, relying on the placebo effect. I wonder if Jim is relying on the placebo effect to rotate his wheel.

[daxwc]

Walt: This thread's been sprinkled with various ideas of material and mechanics. I think it would be a welcome diversion from the usual dung and DNA slinging to discuss: find a concept.

Walt you have been around long enough to know Jim neither wants to talk about his concept or the principle behind it. Unless of course you want to hear more of Jim’s puffery and delusions of grandeur.

How many times have we seen people think that being nice to Jim and stroking his ego will let themselves get a sliver of inspiration only to be lead into wild–goose chase. It is the same spark that ignites gold fever. Unfortunately the members are as much to blame as Jim is.

[WaltzCee]

Walt, in the early days of this forum people regularly claimed 'something that works', when in fact they only had an idea or concept. This caused problems because, as we know, people can get very carried away with their strong belief's and make claims that aren't true.

• ✿ First get something that works!!!
  ♬ Take steps to insure the idea survives in case of calamity.
  ✲ Define the principle or the reason why it works!
  ◕ Design a simple cheap working POP (proof of principle) sample model.

I don't think it's possible to follow these steps in a linear fashion. Although if you want to look at them that way, why would ◕ follow ✿? If “something that worksâ€� = “sample modelâ€�, why would you have to design what you already had?

That makes no sense to me. I think what we have is a failure to communicate.

Everyone has their own plan. I do appreciate the template Jim made but I'd strike ♬ right off the list. I also think ✿ & ✲ are redundant and should be where we start.

I think the most efficient place to start is with the blue.

Walt you have been around long enough to know Jim neither wants to talk about his concept or the principle behind it.

Whether he wants to or not, that shouldn't stop a discussion about it.

[Furcurequs]

WaltzCee,

It seems quite clear to me that the original intention of "First get something that works!!!" was to first have undeniable proof of a working design from positive test results from a real world experimental device. ...which, of course, could possibly be a bit rough, large, expensive, and/or unwieldy.

It would seem to be rather logical, then, to go on from there to further design, based upon knowledge gained and perhaps ideas validated through proper experimentation, a simple and cheap sample model, too, possibly even a toy sized version, for production and distribution to interested parties.

I doubt that people who realize the importance of actually testing their ideas would have misunderstood the difference between an original test device and a small cheap sample model intended for dispersal.

It actually seems to me, then, that jim_mich had a rather rational plan. He would probably do well, therefore, to get back to working towards achieving the first line of his plan and stop insisting that his concept - which has not been successfully tested - "has" to work when that is in no way a given.

A] First get something that works!!!

D] Design a simple cheap working POP (proof of principle) sample model.

F] Build as many of these models as money/time/reasoning suggest.

...

L] When all is prepared, file patents, upload web site, mail plans, ship models, etc. Hit the media hard! Make a sensation! Be on the evening news worldwide.

As far as jim_mich discussing his concept, from what I've seen, he was quite anxious to discuss it in part with people who were accepting of, or at least had some real interest in, his ideas. It seems, though, that the fireworks began when some forum members were a bit more critical of his notions and started pointing out some potential problems with his reasoning.

[Furcurequs]

I wonder if the new vampire jim_mich can take the old jim_mich's advice?

The fluid wheel version is still valid. Simply needs to be constructed properly.

"Validation requires a working model." -

http://www.besslerwheel.com/forum/viewt ... 0623#70623

[Furcurequs]

I have found a concept, but full disclosure would cost me IP rights. So I can't disclose it here.

"It is only your opinion that sometime in the future your wheel concept will run." -

http://www.besslerwheel.com/forum/viewt ... 0623#70623

[Furcurequs]

PS. I've found the part in blue, the concept, a principle, the something that works, so as to cause perpetual forceful rotation of a rotating wheel. I simply need to keep gaining bodily strength until strong enough to resume building and finish that which I've started. Contrary to those claiming otherwise, I'm not lazy. And I'm not about to just give away something that should be worth millions of dollars.

"Someone who thinks that their nag of a horse has already beaten all the other horses in the world even before a single race has been run is really sick." -

http://www.besslerwheel.com/forum/viewt ... 0618#70618

"The whole question boils down to whether or not a concept works. The only sure proof is a model that has been built and can be built again and again that works every time." -

"Your horse has not even been to the race track yet, let alone run any race." -

http://www.besslerwheel.com/forum/viewt ... 0623#70623

[daxwc]

Furcurequs indeed; everybody that has been here awhile and paid attention knows Jim abandoned his plan to save face and cover his trail of lies. His plan was excellent in the beginning for what it was intended for. Narcissists can’t admit they are wrong or say sorry, but also “insist on being the exception to the rule� even if he did make the plan.

[daxwc]

7 Things Only Narcissists Do:

1. They make it clear they know everything.
Narcissists don’t hesitate to educate lawyers about the legal system or enlighten doctors about medicine. After all, they know more about everything than anyone else, and they’re not afraid to show it. In fact, they can be expected to argue, educate, and inform you about virtually every topic you bring up in conversation: “Here’s where you got that wrong. "That’s what most people think, but that’s not actually true.� They don’t shy away from disagreements or opportunities to tutor others about their way of thinking.

2. They insist on being the exception to the rule.
Rules are for people who aren’t smart enough to make good decisions on their own, the narcissist believes, but they know they’re exceptional. And so the usual rules, laws, or policies don't apply to them. They’re often good at manipulating others to bend the rules for them, reinforcing their belief that they shouldn’t have to succumb to the same regulations as everyone else.

3. They project an image of superiority.
Narcissists care greatly about their image. They want to make sure they appear wealthy, popular, and elite. They’re often materialistic and greatly enjoy name dropping, as associating themselves with the hottest brand or famous friends makes them feel important.

4. They make a great first impression, but quickly wear out their welcome.
Narcissists’ charming personalities tend to win them favor with new people—at first. They may come across as confident, exciting—maybe the most endearing and engaging person in the room. But over time, their selfish tendencies cause people to run the other way.

5. They boost their egos by implying others are inferior.
Not only do narcissists need to establish how superior they are; they also tend to imply that everyone else is less intelligent, experienced, or likeable. No matter how much training or education someone else has had, the narcissist is he or she is the real expert.

6. They assume everyone adores them.
The narcissist truly believes that everyone from former co-workers to past lovers holds them in high regard—and assumes that anyone who doesn’t like them must be jealous. But while they can be very sensitive to criticism, outwardly they try to dismiss any negative comments about their personality or performance, and may try to punish anyone who dare express an unfavorable opinion about them.

7. They put their own feelings ahead of other people’s needs.
A lack of empathy is the most telling characteristic of the narcissist. They don’t care what other people need or how they feel. Everything they do centers around what they want and need. They don’t care what type of pain they inflict on others. While fundamentally unsupportive and manipulative, they can fake empathy when it helps them look better. But they lack a genuine desire to put anyone else’s needs above their own desires.
https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/wh ... issists-do

[jim_mich]

Furcurequs is twisting words...

The fluid wheel version is still valid. Simply needs to be constructed properly.

"Validation requires a working model." -

http://www.besslerwheel.com/forum/viewt ... 0623#70623

The original quote:

The United States Patent Office requires proof that any perpetual motion machine will work. You can attempt to explain why it works but it will come down to "you say, they say" and they have the final word. Thus they require a working model. They will not accept that your concept will work just because you say it works. You must have a working model. Validation requires a working model.

so you can clearly see that the validation was in respect to the PTO. One must have a working PM model to validate one's claim of PM.

"Someone who thinks that their nag of a horse has already beaten all the other horses in the world even before a single race has been run is really sick." -

"The whole question boils down to whether or not a concept works. The only sure proof is a model that has been built and can be built again and again that works every time." -

"Your horse has not even been to the race track yet, let alone run any race." -

Furcurequs is twisting words because from that same post...

A 'runner' is the same as a 'working wheel'. Such terms are reserved for only wheels that have been proven to work by being built and tested. Everyone is free to say that they think their wheel idea will work. But stating that your wheel does work when in fact it has not even been built is a bold faced lie!

And I've NEVER claimed a runner

And MY Plan, contrary to what Bill and Furcurequs keep lying about, has always been First find something that works. Before you can build a prototype, you must com up with a concept, a method, a principle, a mechanism, a something that you know will work. In other words, step [A] Not just any idea, but something that has been calculated, and analyzed, and computer modeled such that it is sure to work when built. Not everyone has the know-how and skill to be able to thoroughly analyze a concept or design.

I never built Murrilo's avalanche-drive, but I analyzed it using computer technology, fully animating it in the process, and it was clear that it could never work. I've analyzed many other gravity-wheels in the same way, and they all were unworkable. When I analyzed a motion-wheel, it showed unsymmetrical forces caused by asymmetrical parametric oscillation of the weights.

Validation for the PTO and for skeptics is step [D]

Furcurequs indeed; everybody that has been here awhile and paid attention knows Jim abandoned his plan to save face and cover his trail of lies. His plan was excellent in the beginning for it was intended for. Narcissists can’t admit they are wrong or say sorry, but also “insist on being the exception to the rule� even if he did make the plan.

And again daxwc is lying There is no trail of lies. It was Bill who accused my of lying to him. Then I posted our actual emails, which show clearly there was no lies. So then Bill, in order to save face, started using MY Plan as an excuse for his error. Who better to know what was meant by step [A] of My Plan than the guy that wrote it? How absurd for someone to come along many years later and attempt to twist the words of the plan to fit their own misconception of what it actually says, Bill is a twister of words.

But you trolls keep saying I lied, when Bill was the liar from the start. Bill and others keep perpetuating Bill's lie.Give it up. Bill, simply admit you made a wrong assumption, and that I never lied to you. Or you can keep perpetuating your lie forever.

[WaltzCee]

Practicing medicine without a license, are we?

[WaltzCee]

WaltzCee,

It seems quite clear to me that the original intention of "First get something that works!!!" was to first have undeniable proof of a working design from positive test results from a real world experimental device. ...which, of course, could possibly be a bit rough, large, expensive, and/or unwieldy.

I'll have to disagree for the reason I mentioned. Also, it makes no sense to build something then attempt to understand it.

That's crazy.

[Furcurequs]

"That's crazy."

Well, maybe you are right. It is, of course, jim_mich's plan and not mine. ...lol

[WaltzCee]

or a misinterpretation of the plan.

Too the blue:

Is it possible to use the downward force of all the weights on the wheel to cause an imbalance? The weight of a glacier can cause itself to melt from the bottom up.

Is this a possible principle for a design?