eccentrically1 wrote:But we don't need a reputation to police ourselves, the dots don't have any bearing on self policing. When anyone makes egregious posts, it doesn't matter how many dots either the poster or the postee has, the posts are flagged and scott checks in and bans them.
I can show where one 5 green dot member would <insert issue here>
That's why we need a reputation system. So we can skip the personal issues and just hit the red-dot. Such signal only works when it has some measurable effect.
There's appears to be an issue of (let's call it) dot-inertia where old-green stays green.
I would like to propose an additional measure where a given dot (red or green) has an automatic expiration period: 3 to 5 years seems reasonable. I remember there's an infrequent normalization procedure on the dot-system: dot-auto-revocation could be included there.
With about 406* active members it makes the rep-system a bit more dynamic, a triple-red auto-eject would not be advisable in such case.
*) 1770-1108-256=406
Marchello E.
-- May the force lift you up. In case it doesn't, try something else.---
Hard to believe some people voted no; the system is obviously flawed. What stops the sock-puppet accounts from voting no? I think Scott should just go ahead and do it before new accounts bias the count anyway. Just give a little time for members to air their concerns or improvements.
I appreciate your comments and that you take the time to give your input.
Scott is not a fan of autocracy. The rep system and the Report Post To Admin button are two tools that he uses to simplify his problem resolution responsibility. Usually when someone has accumulated two or three red dots they tend to get overly belligerent and abusive. That's when members start hitting the Report button, which sends an alert to Scott. When he checks that particular post, all he has to do is look over at the Author box and see that the jerk in question has sufficiently annoyed enough members and, prest-o change-o, decision made. No need for him to spend time researching post history. One quick act of mercy and Scott can get back to his life.
All members are equal. The rep system is not about popularity, or hierarchy, or who is more likely to find a solution. From a member standpoint, the rep bar helps a newbie determine which answers or comments to the newbies input can be valued, based on the senior member's rep - which is a direct indication of acknowledged respect.
The proposed changes are designed to fix what's broken by eliminating the abuse that the rep system is currently subject to.
I voted no, I don't think that the majority of those that don 't post are 1108 sock puppets
The majority probably rather just read and learn. I was reading this site for about a year before I joined, and yes, the reason I joined was because I was curious about what was going on in Community Buzz
Building wheels is a solitary sport, but it s nice knowing that there are others with similar dreams of the future
Beer is the cause and the solution of all my problems.
eccentrically1 wrote:I don't think a reputation system is necessary at all. Don't most other forums just have a moderator?
What difference does it make to have a rep system? It doesn't seem to be productive to me. If it's counter-productive, then it would make sense to get rid of it. We should all just be equal members. No one is better or worse at finding the solution to perpetual motion than anyone else.
I voted yes, but I totally agree with ecc.1 I wouldn't be surprised if a working wheel was ignored because someone with multi greenies decided it wont work.
However I think Scott should bite the bullet and charge an annual fee (around 10 to 20 dollar level ) for membership . That would eliminate a lot of the "I'll join to see what's in Community Buzz " set .
Have had the solution to Bessler's Wheel approximately monthly for over 30 years ! But next month is "The One" !
I still believe the ban’s effect should be quick, no month trial wait and done automatically. Not sure if Scott can set up the software for this to happen. Also I wonder if the ban should not be forever but 3 months, 6 month, then life or some other combination of.
ovyyus wrote:A multi greenie opinion can't make 'something that works' suddenly stop working.
Give me a sec here. I need to pick my laughing monkie butt up off the floor. Give me a hand; help me up. Disregard all the fecal material and DNA on my paw. It's not mine.
ovyyus wrote:A multi greenie opinion can't make 'something that works' suddenly stop working.
Actually it can. I think my "feud" with AB Hammer is well known. He always won and had multi-greenies and nothing else. Multi-greenies might actually intimidate people who are new to the forum. I have been frequently told that if someone says I have worked at Bessler's wheel for 30 years and have no idea how it works, I should listen to them.
Or they can say they are an engineer and being "well respected" means they are an engineer even if they have no background associated with engineering. I think green dots are a deterent in this forum to pursuing an understanding of Bessler's work because what if someone like myself is right ? The only thing it would show is that green dots are what matters and in reality they are all that matter in this forum.
James: The only thing it would show is that green dots are what matters and in reality they are all that matter in this forum.
No James the only thing that matters is a perpetual motion wheel, so go build it. You don’t need AB Hammer’s approval. James you have been banned so many times I think your opinion will fall on deaf ears.
James: The only thing it would show is that green dots are what matters and in reality they are all that matter in this forum.
No James the only thing that matters is a perpetual motion wheel, so go build it. You don’t need AB Hammer’s approval. James you have been banned so many times I think your opinion will fall on deaf ears.
And that's because AB Hammer has green dots. And if my build works, then his having called me a fraud many times over the years will mean what precisely ? He has used his reputation to prevent me from working with other people. I can show many posts of his where he discredits Bessler's drawings.
And yet it never hurt his credibility in the least to say there is nothing in Bessler's Maschinen Tractate worth considering. And as you said, I build. Who else does ? I don't know of anyone. Like I said, people who would build get ridiculed and then those who are credible make excuses for why they are leaders of this forum. Conformity. After all, having a vague opinion is more valued.
And with what I posted about how Bessler used leverage, easy to understand if a person understands hydraulic theory and leverage. And yet in 10 years, most people in this forum can't see where Bessler used water in his drawings. He has many drawings that show how water can be used yet it seems taking the time to learn what he knew isn't valued in here. But having your friends give you green dots means that you know Bessler's work.
And it is funny. After all, John Collins has done a lot to make Bessler's work known yet many people in here are just as knowledgeable of Bessler's work as he is.
James. Besides AB Hammer for this discussion-sake, did any other 5-greener prevent you from building?
At least I hope you can admit that your own view-point on Bessler is just as valid as any other view-point... perhaps unless one of the view-points actually results in something that works.
In case you're interested:
Yes: there's "water" in the MT's (But it's an opinion if it was used in his physical wheel(s))
Yes: I like your builds and progress reports (you'll get my green, absolutely!);
No: I don't like like the finger-pointing (No matter who started it, I'll hit red if it takes too long);
Current status: neither red or green
Marchello E.
-- May the force lift you up. In case it doesn't, try something else.---
