Requesting a Favor of Zoelra

[james.lindgard]

Zoelra,
Do you think it would be possible to model this ? I would appreciate it if you could. The design comes from Mt's 31 & 24. The 2 black lines that are not attached to anything shows the path that the lines connecting the levers needs to follow. If the wheel is rotated 180 degrees, when the levers drop as shown, it will look the same. It's symmetrical.
And who knows, maybe someone will try it. with how the weights work together in this design, it would make it easier to understand how scissored levers work.
Why this can work is because is because if a 1 lb. weight drops 7 1/2 inches, it can lift a different 1 lb. weight 7 1/2 inches. because it is lifting a different weight at an angle of 45 degrees, it can lift another weight 8 3/4 inches using 50% of it's extra lifting capacity. at 75% of it's lifting capacity, it can lift a different weight 9 3/8 inches which is almost 2 inches higher.
What this does is allow for torque to be converted into acceleration and then momentum. If the lever and pulley system is sufficient, then 4 weights would always allow for 1 over balanced weight to be performing work.
it is possible with only 2 levers and 2 weights that it might work. If so, it could stop a lot of bickering which is why I'll focus on resolving my health issues. I am not working because they are serious.

http://besslerwheel.com/wiki/index.php? ... -40#MT_031

http://besslerwheel.com/wiki/index.php? ... -40#MT_024

edited to add; lines connect the opposing weights by running around pulleys on the outside of the wheel as well as the weights having lines running directly from one weight to the other.
And if this works, a careful look at Mt 24 shows that Bessler was aware of shifting weights at 45 degrees. What will possibly help the last part of rotation would be the levers shifting. This makes a small change in the balance of the wheel.

[james.lindgard]

Some technical information. If from the center of a lever's fulcrum to the CoG of it's weight, if it's length is 15 inches, the CoG drops 7 1/2 inches. The line that is to lift the weights is tethered 5 inches from the center of the fulcrum.
This allows for a ratio of 3.5:1 or 3.75:1 in lifting the weights. Both levers and their weights will work together. If the ratio becomes 4:1, then that will be 100% of lifting capacity and no work will be performed.
And this could be what Bessler tried that barely worked. With water, there is less friction. Kind of why I think Bessler ultimately used water. And Zoelra, for what you posted to me in Bessler's words, this might agree with what you posted. If so, then it is something everyone might be able to understand.

James

[zoelra]

I'm sorry James I can't model this, I don't have the necessary software.

In my opinion, weight shifting strategies using gravity alone will not yield a wheel with a net energy gain. The best you can hope for is a break even result, but this is all you need from the OB wheel component. Only thru the application of a non-conservative force (the prime mover) - to shift the weights to an overbalanced position - will you achieve overunity.

[james.lindgard]

Zzoelra,
Thank You. I am glad that you were honest. It does matter.

[Fcdriver]

I tried this on a large scale wheel, it can get very violent, the problem is timing that changes as the wheel is moving. Yes it does cause rotation, but once spinning the timing of the forces change, needing a different arrangement. Any slack in what causes the movement, is the problem, once in motion that slack is exaggerated, causing a timing problem. Advancing the timing for a set rpm, only reduces the span of possible continued rotation. The force of lifting a light weight, faster ,can shift a much higher weight, causing imbalance. I could not figure out a method for it to be self correcting for different RPMs. Once the timing changes it self destructs.

[Fcdriver]

If you change this up to trying to lift a lighter spinning flywheel,where the lifting causes rotation, which the force of increase in rpm of the lighter wheel causes the shifting of weights in a slower moving larger wheel, but it never lifts the lighter wheel I'd be interested in seeing it.

[james.lindgard]

I like Scott's Quote of the Day

"The greatest obstacle to discovery is not ignorance - it is the illusion of knowledge."
- Daniel J. Boorstin


As for the design I posted, it is possible that Bessler built something like it.
what would make me wonder if he did or not is the attached image. There is
a way it does work. And I guess if I am the only builder in here, then once I
am healthy I will build this as well.
One interesting aspect of this design is once demonstrated that it works, then one will be found in many classrooms. The simple reason being is when Newton's gravity is discussed or linear and angular momentum and conservation of momentum, it would be an excellent visual aide. And at the same time, those students would also be made aware of Bessler's work. And since Bessler did want to start a school, it would be fulfilling one of his goals.

[james.lindgard]

With something like this, zoelra might be able to give everyone an idea of how the top would work with scissors. It is a neat trck.
What it does is reduce by 25 - 50% the amount of energy lost because a lever swings down. And since this is the 21st century, some modern itens should be used like slides that have aluminum tubes.
And like Mt 26, wheel weights will be needed. If someone wanted to build this, maybe zoelra could give an idea about how scissor levers look. And I could make the wheel weights of there is interest by someone who can do some basic wood working.

[james.lindgard]

For any of Bessler's water wheels to work, they will need to use scissored levers as shown. Focus and math do seem to work well. Sorry rlortie.
With Bessler, his code in which Bessler
Orfyrre does have meaning. A water wheel looks like a water. A Bessler water wheel looks different. Just as in his clues, be too literal and miss the mark.

edited to add; I doubt anyone will try this and that's okay. It is a lot of work.
I guess though that no one in here really cares if Bessler was successful or not. Kind of disappointing from my perspective.

[james.lindgard]

2. “My device runs according to “preponderance�, and turns everything else along with it. On one side it is heavy and full; on the other side empty and light, just as it should be. It must revolve through the principle of 'excess weight'.� AP 348
preponderance (n.) superiority in weight, force

http://www.besslerwheel.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=5312

edited to add Mt 67.

[AB Hammer]

http://www.besslerwheel.com/forum/viewt ... &start=105
From Policy Change -- Sockpuppets & Reputation System page 8

This is funny because I have shown Scott where AB Hammer attributed a quote to Scott in another forum. No source was given and do believe the quote by Scott was entirely fictitious.

http://www.besslerwheel.com/forum/viewt ... d&start=75

Posted: Tue Nov 13, 2007 12:02 am ( 10th post down the page )

Stop filling the forum up with your lies.

[zoelra]

“My device runs according to “preponderance�, and turns everything else along with it. On one side it is heavy and full; on the other side empty and light, just as it should be. It must revolve through the principle of 'excess weight'.� AP 348

This statement pretty much describes the characteristics of any overbalanced wheel. What Bessler omits is referenced in MT15.

[james.lindgard]

ab hammer,
It doesn't change the fact that you posted a fraudulent quote from Scott to slander me. I think it's even funnier that you were attacking someone with cancer. I was actually told the news on the day of your fraudulent post.
That let's me know what kind of person you are Alan. And if people like you, I wouldn't care to know them. I do think it is funny though. rlortie would list you as the #1 builder in this forum but at no time were you allowed to be a part of his Arrache build group. That is strange. I would think that if he thought so highly of you that you should have been included in his group.

[AB Hammer]

ab hammer,
It doesn't change the fact that you posted a fraudulent quote from Scott to slander me. I think it's even funnier that you were attacking someone with cancer. I was actually told the news on the day of your fraudulent post.
That let's me know what kind of person you are Alan. And if people like you, I wouldn't care to know them. I do think it is funny though. rlortie would list you as the #1 builder in this forum but at no time were you allowed to be a part of his Arrache build group. That is strange. I would think that if he thought so highly of you that you should have been included in his group.

I proved the quote of Scott's and you Lindgaard still push your fraudulent talk. totally busted again

[james.lindgard]

AB Hammer,
What do you mean busted ? How is using my real name an attempt to deceive ? It's not. Still, you are about the only person I know who would harass someone with cancer. That's inexcusable and all because you think I owe you something. I don't.
What I don't understand is how the rules don't apply to you. After all, Scott should never allow you to openly slander someone like you have me.
I think I just lost all respect for him.