Requesting a Favor of Zoelra

[rlortie]

James Lindgard,

This is not the first time you have recently dropped my name into your battle with Alan.

To clarify a couple of things; you have no evidence that I claimed Alan or any other member to be #1 builder of this forum. you have no substantiation that Alan was or was not a member of the "Gravity Solutions Group"

The group was not recognized as a builders group and employed very few actual builders, it was and still is a "think tank group" No member has ever been called upon to build a design submitted by a non-member client. That was the responsibility of James Kelly and myself. Not everyone is blessed with a complimentary machine and carpenter shop and the experience to use it to its fullest capabilities.

No information has ever been released, unless by the individual responsible as to who was, was not, or still is a member of 'Arrache'

Most builders are inclined to avoid group collaboration. If they have the ability and resources they would rather go it alone!

As I reflect on this, I give thought to what I would do if someone asked me for a referral for a trusted competent builder. I draw a blank, I can think of no one that I would stake my reputation on.

Ralph

[zoelra]

@James,

“My device runs according to “preponderance�, and turns everything else along with it. On one side it is heavy and full; on the other side empty and light, just as it should be. It must revolve through the principle of 'excess weight'.�

This statement pretty much describes the characteristics of any overbalanced wheel. Of course Bessler also wrote the following:

"Many would-be Mobile-makers think that if they can arrange for some of the weights to be a little more distant from the center than the others, then the thing will surely revolve. A few years ago, I learned all about this the hard way. And then the truth of the old proverb came home to be that one has to learn through bitter experience."

Here I think Bessler is referring to the futility in forcing weights to change their radius in an attempt to create an overbalance. If anyone has spent time building OB wheels, then they will surely have learned this bitter lesson. And yet overbalance is necessary to force rotation.

[james.lindgard]

@zoelra,
It's kind of funny in a way but all weights can be the same distance from the axle at all times.
With this quote of Bessler's
" 4. “These weights are the essential parts as from them is received the movement which they exercise so long as they remain out of the
centre of gravity; and when they come to be placed together, and so arranged one against another that they can never obtain equilibrium,
one of them must apply its weight vertically to the axis, which must also move." PV 103 Henry Dirks/Goez and Beauchamp translation
1861 of DT 20 "

in my opinion, he is describing how 1 of his wheels worked. This is what might be simple enough for everyone to understand.

The quote is found under "Cause of Movement".
http://www.besslerwheel.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=5312

edited to add; I'll wait and see if anyone can come up with a "simple" solution to this problem. After all, this is Bessler's Wheel, right ?

[james.lindgard]

zoelra,
This is the way a basic Bessler wheel works. When 2 levers drops, one drops to a bellow that has filled with water. That is 2 weights together and one is over balanced always.
The 2 levers move a slide that opens the bellow at 3 o'clock. This does require some work but with a solid weight and water in a bellow, all it needs to do is to rotate 90 degrees.
One very important detail is that the long levers only rotate 22.5 degrees. That's all that's needed. It's in the math. If the levers swing more, then they will reduce the amount of net torque that can be generated.
I hope you don't mind my saying but math doesn't go over very well in here or at overunity.com.

edited to change drawing and to add, once I am healthy, I'll build this. It's just that with Bessler's drawings, to be literal is to say Bessler, to reconfigure them is to say orfyrre.

as for Mt 138, notice one lever is moving sideways while the other lever doesn't move ? Kind of how to push open a bellow.

[AB Hammer]

zoelra

Here is a wheel I built several years ago. It is not a fluid wheel but spin weights. It can help you out with the connections and approach of what is being called basic Bessler.

[zoelra]

@James,

"I hope you don't mind my saying but math doesn't go over very well in here or at overunity.com."

It may not go over well here or at overunity, but if you know ALL the variables, it is a great way to prove a runner before you begin a build. All SIMs are based on math. If you rely on a SIM, then you indirectly rely on math. Just my thoughts anyway.

[jim_mich]

It may not go over well here, but if you know ALL the variables, it is a great way to prove a runner before you begin a build.

In that case you First get something that works! And then you begin a build.

[zoelra]

@Jim_Mich,

Agreed. I don't think there is any wrong approach. Sometimes sheer dumb luck plays a part (it has for me).

For many years I have felt that the solution consists of two parts: an OB wheel part (MT9 for example) and a prime mover part. The OB wheel part keeps the wheel turning, and the prime mover part (which must rotate to work) jacks the weights in the OB wheel part to the OB position - a symbiotic relationship. My math (for what its worth) proves the prime mover is OU and I am confident I fully understand ALL the variables necessary to build the mathematical model. Engineering a linkage to produce the movements I want has been challenging (and continues) but I feel I am nearing the end of my journey. I have built (and video recorded) several small models of the prime mover to validate the movements and expected forces. When the time is right I will start my own topic to begin discussing my approach in greater detail.

[james.lindgard]

@James,

"I hope you don't mind my saying but math doesn't go over very well in here or at overunity.com."

It may not go over well here or at overunity, but if you know ALL the variables, it is a great way to prove a runner before you begin a build. All SIMs are based on math. If you rely on a SIM, then you indirectly rely on math. Just my thoughts anyway.

@zoelra,
It is. Without my build experience and the math behind it, I wouldn't have happened across this. I think it's sad in a way how some forum members are.
I'll be able to start designing it so when I am able, I can start building it.

[james.lindgard]

@zoelra,
there is a way this can be modeled. I'm not sure if you're program can model the levers rotating from the rim with linkage. The drawing shows how much the levers need to move.

edited to add,
with the drawing, if a weight is placed at "A', then with the levers in the position shown, a sim would give an idea if enough over balance can be achieved, This only requires a 90° rotation because when "A" moves to "B", the water will be pumped back to "A".

@All,
open forum, open source but please stay "on topic" to give others a chance to understand how these mechanics work. And to understand how much work it takes to fill a bellow, the basic assumption will be the surface area of the bellow divided by the surface area of the water pipe times the weight of the water in the pressure head or bellow divided by the pipe times the pressure head (b/p*ph)
And with this specific configuration of levers, it does suggest that sufficient over balance is possible.