Policy Change -- Sockpuppets & Reputation System

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Should these changes be put into effect?

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jim_mich
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Post by jim_mich »

Mark wrote:1) I take great offense by your accusation that my efforts were an attempt to trash the forum.

2) The rep reset was entirely Scott's idea, no one suggested it.

3) Apparently you missed my comment regarding the usefulness of the rep system?
This thread and this pole was started by you, Mark, and NOT by Scott.

And in the second post of this thread you stated that you "ran this proposal by Scott three years ago via PM."

Maybe your intentions were good, but they were rushed through way too fast, and the end result is that the past reputation ended up in the trash. Thus you trashed the forum.

You made the suggestion on June 22 and Scott made the change one day later, June 23.

In other words, you (and Scott) crammed your changes through so fast that few had time to think, vote, or evaluate the consequences.

Your intentions may have been good, but I question the results

Anyway, just my opinion, which makes no difference after the fact.

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zoelra
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re: Policy Change -- Sockpuppets & Reputation System

Post by zoelra »

Anyone know why my reputation would not be displayed (maybe a bug)?
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Post by jim_mich »

Because Mark pushed through a reputation reset, causing everyone's reputation to be zeroed out. Thus the in-crowd could punch each others green dots and look important.

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re: Policy Change -- Sockpuppets & Reputation System

Post by agor95 »

@zoelra

Hi

I have hit your greed dot so you are 'Acknowledged'.

I am re-balancing who gets Green Dots and who gets none.
Also who I ignore for a while.

As you have some interesting posts and build images.
It is the lease I can do for you.

Regards
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re: Policy Change -- Sockpuppets & Reputation System

Post by Mark »

jim_mich wrote:
Mark wrote:1) I take great offense by your accusation that my efforts were an attempt to trash the forum.

2) The rep reset was entirely Scott's idea, no one suggested it.

3) Apparently you missed my comment regarding the usefulness of the rep system?
This thread and this pole was started by you, Mark, and NOT by Scott.

And in the second post of this thread you stated that you "ran this proposal by Scott three years ago via PM."

Maybe your intentions were good, but they were rushed through way too fast, and the end result is that the past reputation ended up in the trash. Thus you trashed the forum.

You made the suggestion on June 22 and Scott made the change one day later, June 23.

In other words, you (and Scott) crammed your changes through so fast that few had time to think, vote, or evaluate the consequences.

Your intentions may have been good, but I question the results

Anyway, just my opinion, which makes no difference after the fact.
Jim,

I have as much control over what Scott decides to do with his board as you do. And that is NONE.

I did NOT cram or rush any changes through! I do not have that power or influence.

NONE of my proposed changes were actualized by Scott.

The rep reset was ENTIRELY Scott's idea and doing.

How quickly he reacts is certainly not controlled by me! You have a problem with Scott's actions, take it up with him !!
zoelra wrote:Anyone know why my reputation would not be displayed (maybe a bug)?
jim_mich wrote:Because Mark pushed through a reputation reset, causing everyone's reputation to be zeroed out.
That is not an opinion. It's not even rational. It's a defaming, inflammatory accusation that is an outright LIE !!

edited to add quote of Jim's post, and this:
On the 'something that works' thread, where I said "but as far as this half-wit is concerned" - you do understand that I was referring to myself, right?
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Post by zoelra »

Thank you agor95, and I returned the favor.
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re: Policy Change -- Sockpuppets & Reputation System

Post by Mark »

For those of you that don't care about the issue between Jim_Mich and I, you need not waste your time reading this.
Unless you're curious about the finer details. :-)

===== ===== =====
Off-topic, [url=http://www.besslerwheel.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=146029#146029]on another thread[/url], jim_mich wrote:Mark, you say "The rep reset was ENTIRELY Scott's idea and doing. "
But you also say, "I ran this proposal by Scott three years ago via PM."
And the pole was started by you, Mark, and NOT by Scott.
All 3 of your statements are true. Both of my quoted statements are true.
In case you missed it; you'll find in his PM reply, that my running a poll was his idea.
and then jim_mich wrote:And the pole ran only about one day, a time I consider way too short.
First part - Technically, not true. The poll is still running, it's still accepting votes.
It was about 40 hours after I authored this thread that Scott posted that he had made his changes. HIS changes. NOT the changes that I proposed and the majority had voted for.

Landslide result, I might add. . . . . <---- that's a joke. You know, ha ha (?)

Second part - Actually, Jim, I agree with you. I feel that Scott should have waited at least one or two weeks before taking action, to allow enough 'occasional log-ins' to see the poll and participate.
and then jim_mich wrote:And it is obvious many of you have hit me with red dots.
I have never punched anyone's red. Tempted? Oh, yeah. Punched? Never. Yet.
[funny - they're called greenies, but not red-ies]
and then jim_mich wrote:It takes only three green dots to become Acknowledged.
[Assuming that the figures on the Statistics and FAQ pages are correct]
No rep = 986 - 1010 points -- give 4 points for punching greenie - take 3 points for punching red
33 members at Acknowledged = 1011 - 1040 -- 5 greenie - 4 red
6 members at Appreciated = 1041 - 1070 -- 6 greenie - 4 red
1 members at Respected = 1071 - 1110 -- 8 greenie - 6 red
No members with a Well Respected rating, as I write this.
and then jim_mich wrote:And I know I've been given many more than three green dots, So it is the red dots that busted me back down to Reputation none.
First part - I am curious how you would "know" that you've been given more than three - and I presume you mean greenie punches? "Dots", I believe, refers to the actual rep bar representations, doesn't it?

Second part - Logical. And, like I said before, not my doing.
and then jim_mich wrote:Do you honestly think Scott would have changed and reset the Rep system without you making the request?
Jim, that can be taken at least 2 different ways.
[I swear, you are the Master Of Splitting Hairs when it comes to your writings. I oughta call ya Jim_mosh :-D]

First - If you are saying; if I hadn't run the poll, Scott wouldn't have made changes because of it, that's true. Of course.
But that does not eliminate the possibility that he might have - at any point in time - made the same or other changes, right out of the blue. Unlikely, yes. Impossible, no.

[and now for the one that ticks me off, and makes me waste my time creating this post]

Second - If you are insinuating that I had ANY INFLUENCE with Scott's decision making process, you are wrong. The two changes that he made were his choice.
Scott wrote:As a starting point, I like the idea of preventing zero post members from using the reputation system.
That was suggested by other members, NOT ME.
Scott wrote:... all reputations have been set back to zero.
NO ONE requested or even suggested neutralizing everyone's reputation. It was a surprise to me, just like everybody else. He made that decision unilaterally, despite telling me in his PM reply that he didn't like doing so.

Now, you've mentioned my three year old PM with Scott a couple of times. I get the feeling that you suspect that I'm hiding some detail. If that's the case, you are dead wrong. The only interaction that I've had with Scott is by posts that I've made here on the Forums of this Board, and via PM.
Below, is a copy and paste of the message that I originally sent him [and his reply, for your convenience]. If I could forward you the actual message that's still in my Savebox, I would. This will have to suffice. It is all of, and the only, PM exchange between Scott and I that discussed sockpuppets or the rep system.
N.B. - The ONLY thing deleted from it is my last name from the signature. That is fact.
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Mark
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re: Policy Change -- Sockpuppets & Reputation System

Post by Mark »

Posted: 12th June 2013, 20:24
Subject: Policy / Sockpuppets / Reputation system

Hi, Scott.

I would like to suggest a change of policy that I believe would reduce the occurrence, effectiveness, and persistence of sockpuppet accounts. It will also eliminate certain abuse of the reputation system.

Phase 1 -
Adjust the reputation multipliers for no-reputation (and lower) members to zero, so that a member would need to acquire at least an Acknowledged rating before being able to affect the system.

Phase 2 -
Most of the stockpiled sockpuppets would likely be eliminated by deleting the accounts of all users that have zero posts and haven't recently visited.

There are approximately 700 zero-post members whose last visit was prior to 2 months ago.
685 that haven't visited in 2013.
665 that haven't returned within the last 12 months.
And that's not counting the 180 or so members whose Last Visit status is "Never".

Implementing these two actions essentially exchanges the silent member's ability to vote reputation, for the elimination of the abuse that the current set-up allows, in which anyone can readily boost their own rating or counter red dots by simply creating additional accounts. Of course, this won't eliminate the creation of new or 'reincarnation' sockpuppets, but it should certainly hamstring them.

There may be a few silent longtime members with legitimate accounts that get caught up in a purge like this, because they only check in once in a blue moon, but I doubt that they would mind the minor inconvenience of re-registering one time.

Best regards,
Mark


REPLY --

From: scott
To: Mark
Posted: 16th June 2013, 16:32
Subject: Re: Policy / Sockpuppets / Reputation system

Thanks for the suggestions, Mark. I'm not sure I want to make any changes like this unilaterally. Maybe you can post these ideas as a new topic with a poll and get feedback from other users? If there's enough support then I would be open to changes.
Best,
Scott

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Mark
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re: Policy Change -- Sockpuppets & Reputation System

Post by Mark »

Jim_mich,
I repeat, the only one that's responsible for Scott's decisions or actions is Scott. If you continue to have a problem with what Scott does with his discussion board or any other part of his website, take it up with him !!

Trying to blame me for what Scott did, is as ludicrous as if I were trying to blame you for Cloud Camper being a "bully".

[nothing personal, Scott]
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re: Policy Change -- Sockpuppets & Reputation System

Post by WaltzCee »

This thread looks like it's getting edited.
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re: Policy Change -- Sockpuppets & Reputation System

Post by ME »

...and dismembered in the process.
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re: Policy Change -- Sockpuppets & Reputation System

Post by WaltzCee »

Greetings Marchello,

What I noticed was I couldn't access the first page. Then I plugged in different numbers in the =reply&t=whatevernumber and pulled up a page.

I noticed 2 pages having redundant posts and this first page:

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I don't know quite what to make of this.
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Post by jim_mich »

Mark, it is very obvious that it was YOU who started the ball rolling (by your pole) that resulted in Scott making the changes that he made.

So, yes, I am insinuating that I had SOME INFLUENCE with Scott's decision, because without you raising questions by posting the pole, I really don't think Scott would have changed anything.

PS. Part of page one, starting with the 9th post will load, but the first 8 posts cause the system to hang.

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re: Policy Change -- Sockpuppets & Reputation System

Post by WaltzCee »

PS. Part of page one, starting with the 9th post will load, but the first 8 posts cause the system to hang.
hung or "pessimistic" locking.
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re: Policy Change -- Sockpuppets & Reputation System

Post by Mark »

Yes, Jim, I started the ball rolling that resulted in Scott making changes. But not the changes that he made.
I am only INDIRECTLY responsible for the particular changes that he made.
You need to make that discernment.

You need to stop blaming me for what Scott actually did.
The particular changes that Scott made were not what was proposed and voted for.
Stop making me repeat this!

Of course the poll [not "pole'] caused Scott to make changes, that was it's purpose.

Stop blaming ME for your loss of green dots.

Any further accusation from you will be considered harassment.

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The trouble with the server has been going on for 2 -3 hours.
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