Matter and Energy

[John doe]

Not sure if this is related but I was curious about the answer.
How much does a helicopter weigh while hovering or taking off.
If you weigh the helicopter while its powered down sitting on a scale it will weigh x, as the propellers spin it's weight will decrease according to the scale until it is 0 at which point it will lift off. Is it a true statement to say the helicopter weighs 0?

[rlortie]

Found this while browzing!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contact_mechanics

To deep for me to understand.

Ralph

[Furcurequs]

The first law of thermodynamics also supports energy mass equivalence.

First law of thermodynamics: When energy passes, as work, as heat, or with matter, into or out from a system, the system's internal energy changes in accord with the law of conservation of energy. Equivalently, perpetual motion machines of the first kind are impossible.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laws_of_thermodynamics

Other sources:

http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/equivME/

http://physwiki.ucdavis.edu/Core/Classi ... and_Energy

Either way you look at it, Newton or Einstein, provides a means for perpetual motion. The argument is academic. And academically speaking, Einstein is correct. The spring gains internal energy, and the corresponding infinitesimal mass.

That second link is an especially good one, I believe. I've bookmarked it and hope to read it all eventually.

[WaltzCee]

Holy mother of Sponge Bob Square Pants! I don't say that often. My neurons are firing faster than light squared. I think my haid gonna explode.

<just.frigging.joking>
First off I'd like to kowtow to a cultural norm some of the formerly highly regarded want to institute on this forum, that is to be a little disrespectful to Jim_de_Mich. This sentiment has been summed excellently here:

http://www.besslerwheel.com/forum/viewt ... 818#146818

He sure knows how to draw in the most ignorant and gullible of people to come to his defense.

Not wanting to seem gullible or ignorant, here goes.

OK, Jim, you're ugly and although your mother no longer dresses you, you've managed all these years to persist in the funny way she taught you. </just.frigging.joking>

phew, I can hardly get the taste out of my mouth.

The real point I want to make was mentioned by Marchello here:
http://www.besslerwheel.com/forum/viewt ... 628#146628

Very crudely, a mass is an illusion of a cooled down version of energy

and the equivalency of matter and energy. Knitting this idea together with this idea by Danny Buoy here:
http://www.besslerwheel.com/forum/viewt ... 833#146833

The idea is to modify what occurs naturally

Maybe this wanna be physicist would like to do a little water walking too, calling things that aren't as though they were. The answer is simple. We just need to create some structure that rewrites the laws of physics as we know them into the way we want them to be. Follow this.

This very persistent reality all began with light if you can take the hearsay word of Moses concerning my client. Back in the day it is claimed he said,

light be, and light was.

The Einstein's of today are thinking reality is virtual. Time and space are a fabric consisting of energy and matter. But energy is matter. Don't believe me; google it. No matter to me.

I'm going to take a break and smell some roses in my backyard and wonder if they're real or not as I prick myself with their thorns.

ETA:
http://www.besslerwheel.com/forum/viewt ... 797#146797
bastages, bastages
ship hell fire!

[daanopperman]

Hi all ,

Here it is again , " The sun loses 4000000 tons of mass every second . "

[eccentrically1]

The first law of thermodynamics also supports energy mass equivalence.

First law of thermodynamics: When energy passes, as work, as heat, or with matter, into or out from a system, the system's internal energy changes in accord with the law of conservation of energy. Equivalently, perpetual motion machines of the first kind are impossible.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laws_of_thermodynamics

Other sources:

http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/equivME/

http://physwiki.ucdavis.edu/Core/Classi ... and_Energy

Either way you look at it, Newton or Einstein, provides a means for perpetual motion. The argument is academic. And academically speaking, Einstein is correct. The spring gains internal energy, and the corresponding infinitesimal mass.

That second link is an especially good one, I believe. I've bookmarked it and hope to read it all eventually.

Yes, it goes into the best detailed explanation, most of the relevant bits are in the first section and second section through 2.2.

[cloud camper]

Not sure if this is related but I was curious about the answer.
How much does a helicopter weigh while hovering or taking off.
If you weigh the helicopter while its powered down sitting on a scale it will weigh x, as the propellers spin it's weight will decrease according to the scale until it is 0 at which point it will lift off. Is it a true statement to say the helicopter weighs 0?

It still weighs exactly the same given by the physics formula W=MG. The mass hasn't changed (except for consuming some fuel) neither has the gravitational constant.

The heli flies by creating buoyancy in that it displaces more weight of air downwards than the weight of the heli causing the heli to rise.

The only thing that has changed is the displaced air now supports the weight of the heli instead of the scales.

[rlortie]

I believe it was Bill who once wrote of a fly in a sealed jar. The jar and fly always weighed the same no matter if the fly was flying, landing upside down on the lid, or setting on the bottom.

The only time the jar became lighter was if the fly died and while falling!

Ralph

[John doe]

Then what about this ?
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=GeyDf4ooPdo&autoplay=1

[rlortie]

What about it?

How much energy was utilized by the hand held drill motor to get the gyro precession wound up? Was it sufficient to carry on the demonstration?

What happens when the gyro runs out of the outside energy supplied via the drill motor?

[DannyBouy]

Has anyone tried to use the Roberval like this?




Thanks
Daniel