His Secret Is In The Levers

[james.lindgard]

@All,
I am working on calculating torque at the moment. With levers, it will be a little different. And since work does take time, I'll need to figure out how to include t*a*d=w. That's time * acceleration (9.8 m/s) * distance. Then when levers drop lifting weights, then how many degrees of rotation does it take for such work to be performed.
This is because the weights on the levers also need to roll outward and then roll inward. And as basic as it is, moving the weights to quickly might rob the wheel of momentum. And all of this as with most of what I do will be a work in progress and will improve over time.
And for those of you who are not aware, this thread http://besslerwheel.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=6901 is what ME started in Tech Support and his help does make a difference, it makes things a lot easier for me and can only suggest other people who haven't tried working with a spreadsheet to maybe check one out and become a little familiar with it.

Jim

[ME]

I'll need to figure out how to include t*a*d=w. That's time * acceleration (9.8 m/s) * distance.

Just by SI-units: [s]*[m/s^2]*[m] = [m^2/s], that's a surface area per second.
Work: m*g*h = [kg]*[m/s^2]*[m] = [kg (m/s)^2 ] = [N m]

[james.lindgard]

Thanks ME. With the attached images, Mt 66, Mt 26 and my build, they show one way a weight can be retracted. and since the faster a weight is moved, then the more energy it will take to move it. This is where m/s^2 shows that. And at the same time, the wheel is rotating and is either increasing or decreasing the force of it's weights.
With my build, if I scissored the lever (as shown in the 2nd image) then if the weight rolled toward the axle, it would take a different path rather than rolling up the lever's arm.
All this means is that as weights move to or away from the axle, they should accelerate a little if gravity is assisting. at the same time, less energy is needed to rotate the wheel so the wheel itself should spin a little faster.
There are other ways perpetual motion is possible but I am focusing on this.


Jim

edited to insert a sentence.

[james.lindgard]

@All,
The first image are tools hidden in the toolbar on the paint program. If anyone opens theirs and scrolls down on the toolbar, they will find these extra options or just click on view.
As for the wheel frame, I am going to build a prototype. What will be nice about this project is using spreadsheets to calculate force and velocity. That will be kind of nice. After all, as ME mentioned, once a spreadsheet is made then numbers can be changed. And with perpetual motion, this means the inner position as well as over balanced position and mass can be changed. And if a person wants to factor in resistance, they can do that as well.
And with the paint program, I am using a strange scale. 1 cm in the drawing represents 1 inch. This means that a 1/2 inch dimension on the actual wheel becomes 1/2 cm in the drawing. And this will allow me to design my parts on the paint program and that should be close enough to build from.
What might be over looked is that wheels are made from assemblies and sub-assemblies. The same thing with the drawing. It will take some work but adding parts from one drawing to that of the wheel can be done. If anyone gets into the design engineering of a wheel, they'd find this helpful.


Jim

[james.lindgard]

@All,
The first image is a spreadsheet I made that calculates torque every 2.5°.
Now that I have it, I don't have to wonder how much force certain dimensions/values can generate. I will be doing more work on that one or will make another one. Cells can be copied from one spreadsheet to another.
And the second image is a design I might pursue as an actual build. I am going to redraw it so I can have the details spot on. Then it would make for a good animated gif. This way the mechanics that I am developing and believe Bessler used will be seen. It does take time as it is a lot of work.
And with the mock up, that is to actually do a build to find out what needs to be improved or changed in a design. While the prototype might work, it's not important that it does.


Jim

edited to change picture

[james.lindgard]

@All,
This is the start of the animated gif. A 90° will use 36 images. There are ways that will save some work. And to calculate the movement of the levers and weights, I'll probably make a spreadsheet for that. And with this, instead of working at a lot of different things, I can try them first like this. And that will probably save a lot of money build wise.
I did find a free program online that allows for rotating images by 0.1° increments.

Jim


edited to add: it might be a couple pf weeks before I can show the prototype and animated gif. They might not be finished but enough should be done so everypne can see what I'm trying to do. Besodes, I need surgery so wpuld like to have most of it dpne by then.

[james.lindgard]

@All,
This build I've done is a simple way a "wheel" can be built. It'd be easy enough to have moving levers that are scissored. What will take some work is synching the movement of the weight wheels with the scissored action of the levers as shown in the drawing in my last post.

Jim

[Andyb]

Nice build, love seeing a build ,thanks for sharing .

[Tarsier79]

Awesome build! :)

[james.lindgard]

AndyB and Tarsier, Thanks !

@All,
With the wheel frame I posted on Friday, Oct. 28th, that can be used to test my theory on how Bessler used his levers. It's actually working on that and considering how my levers from my MT 125 would work. This is because the diameter of the wheel posted on Oct. 28th is about 1/3 larger than the Mt 125 build.
The attached diagram is called a wire frame as far as Design Engineering goes. It's used to reference lines of force as well as the dimensions of an object. And with the spreadsheet that ME helped me with, it is possible to see if the calculations agree with an actual build. If so, then this would show how all those numbers can be translated into something physical.
Although with something like this, net torque is one value. Another value that matters is Moment of Inertia. And that's because that's what Net Torque would be converted into.
As for the basic frame construction, that helped me to consider math and application as well as becoming more familiar with how some of what Bessler knew could be built.

Jim

[ME]

And with the spreadsheet that ME helped me with, it is possible to see if the calculations agree with an actual build. If so, then this would show how all those numbers can be translated into something physical.

Glad it was useful, before you know it you can do it all by calculation! Even though it'll never beat an actual build; which looks as good as always.

Also consider the possibility of reverse engineering recorded measurements (never easy!) back into some formula for detecting trends, finetuning, or predicting model behavior.

Marchello E.

[raj]

Nice work!

Keep it up.

Raj

[james.lindgard]

And with the spreadsheet that ME helped me with, it is possible to see if the calculations agree with an actual build. If so, then this would show how all those numbers can be translated into something physical.

Glad it was useful, before you know it you can do it all by calculation! Even though it'll never beat an actual build; which looks as good as always.

Also consider the possibility of reverse engineering recorded measurements (never easy!) back into some formula for detecting trends, finetuning, or predicting model behavior.

Marchello E.

Marchello,
What some people in here might come to like are spreadsheets. Not good at math ? That doesn't matter if someone has a spreadsheet that can perform those calculations. With mine, I included a conversion formula for lbs. and in. into kg and m. This is because I set up my spreadsheet for the metric system only. And the final answer for torque is calculated both in N-m and in. lbs.
With what I am doing right now, it might show where they work well together.


Jim

[james.lindgard]

Thanks Raj, I do plan on it. I'd like to see a working Bessler wheel myself. I happen to like his work. :-)

@All,
The 2 pictures are rather basic, they show the extra force a weight creates depending on it's position on a lever. When I have my wheel's frame on a stand, I'll be able to mount both levers and show the same force exists.
Why does this matter ? When a weight is allowed to roll inward like a weight wheel (Mt 26) can, it loses force. And this means that any imbalance will require less work to over come. And for a Bessler wheel, this would be in my opinion his "Prime Mover".


Jim

[james.lindgard]

@All,
The attached picture kind of shows where I'm going with this. Will I need to do a new build ? If I did, it'd look better but I think for getting everyone on the same page, it might do the job.


Jim