A Perpetual Motion device

[gurangax]

You are overlooking the simple things here. your mind is too clouded to see it

[gurangax]

I may have omitted some details in my pdf drawings, but it doesnt change the fact that this system really does works, anyway, will do another drawing later.

[gurangax]

Since I can not edit the first post until 1440 Min elapsed, I'll just post the updated pdf here. Now I include the air bubble trap and outlet valve

[rlortie]

gurangax,

Having spent 22 years working in and around hydro-electric dams, I agree; you did not invent it! Your rigid tank is found in the form called a "draft tube" and will be found in any and all hydro generators of the kaplan-and Francis-turbines or similar designed turbines.

Yes the concept can be used to increase gravity performance but it is not perpetual by any means. suggest you acquaint your self with the following Wiki article and also check out the works of Leonhard Euler.

A quote from the below link:

Bernoulli's principle can also be derived directly from Newton's 2nd law. If a small volume of fluid is flowing horizontally from a region of high pressure to a region of low pressure, then there is more pressure behind than in front. This gives a net force on the volume, accelerating it along the streamline.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bernoulli%27s_principle
http://www.differencebetween.com/differ ... s-turbine/

What does your rigid tank do? it increases volume while attempting to maintain velocity, all being controlled by atmospheric pressure. Sorry but it does not seem to work that way!

[gurangax]

There must be a missunderstanding somewhere. Try this simple experiment. fill a bottle with water and connect it to a hose. fill the hose with water until it is full. now put the hose lower than the bottle and see the suction in action. the bottle is compressed by athmospheric pressure. The vacuum is non stopable even if you have a closed tank like the bottle, water will still drop down unstopable.

Science is only valid until we proved otherwise, do not depend to much on the books. Real life experiment is what you need to do to understand this. At first I was baffled about it as well, but I have built it and tested it and now I have understanding of it.

I will stop explaining it to you guys, build it if you really want to know.

Cheers

[honza]

Gurangax, thanks for bringing it to our attention.
I have since watched quite a number of videos on youtube presenting this system. It gives me strong impression that it must genuinely work.
Some of the vids appear to be made during presentations to a crowd of interested people. That would be the most unlikely way to produce a scam.
I am convinced this is unexplainable with the help of knowledge we learned at schools. The laws we know don't deal with this subject in a comprehensive way.
They undoubtedly apply to most of experimental situations but they may not be applicable to all possible situations.
While watching the vids I have realized one thing that I can't explain using existing "laws". The water level drops in the tank creating vacuum above the water level. The laws would predict the vacuum to form at the highest point of the system while water is draining to both sides equally (provided both sides have the same height). It does not seem to happen when the highest point is a narrow tube and the tank is bit lower and has a larger tube out. In such situation it appears the system becomes unbalanced - one side draining out while the other is sucking in.
I am willing to build one such setup to see for myself. Not sure if I manage before Christmas but when it is done I will let you know the result.

Cheers

[gurangax]

now that I come to think of it, surface area does play role

Cheers

[Tarsier79]

G. I don't know why you can't see why your device will not work.

I understand your bottle and hose test, and agree it will try to collapse the bubble.

Your tank will have a much more negative pressure than the outside pressure, so yes, water will be sucked in from one side if it is pulled out the other.

I have reposted the image from your PDF showing the two pressures made by the two different heights of the water column. Notice the red column will always be higher than the purple column. Since the red column will be pulling down harder than the purple, the device will attempt to run backwards.

[gurangax]

I understand your point of view as that is what conventional physics will see it. but this device is not conventional physics although it can be explained properly. Also notice the surface area plays role as in the hydraulic principle. The lowest surface area will lose to the bigger surface area in terms of the force of suction. if you translate the video title of the other same category videos it will be like "A pump without engine" or "pump without electric", in reality it is a gravity vacuum pump. It is a pump and it is already been used in real life. There is no pump like it, it should be a new type of pump same like the RAM pump which uses no engine or electricity.

[Tarsier79]

Just saying the phrase "unconventional physics, look outside the box etc" does not explain how your device is going to defy physics. Maybe you should do a small scale experiment, the exact build of the design in your pdf. You could do it cheaply and in an afternoon if you choose the right equipment.

I am certain the gravity water pumps that are used in Asia contain something more than you might think they do. Do some more research, or build a device that works.

I am visiting Cambodia in the next month or so, and will try to talk to some of the farmers in the area to investigate a little further myself, but without solid leads, I think it will be a fools errand.

[honza]

Hi guys,
I have managed to build a scaled down version of this setup and the result shows no anomaly of physics laws.

I have positioned the unit ~ 1m above floor and placed the suction line inside large bucket of water on the floor. The check valve at the end of my clear inlet hose leaked a bit, but for the experiment it was actually helpfull in showing what happens to the water inside.
I have built a P-trap in the outlet to resist air entering backwards.
I have filled the system with water and turned off the filler tube valve.
After I have opened the outlet valve the water actually slowly retreated into the outlet (sucking in air)and at the same time the water in the suction hose started to go down (air filling the upper part) until the equilibrium was reached (height of water column in the inlet leg and the outlet leg of the system become equal).

Conclusion:
The Kmer Drum Pumps in the youtube vids must have something else powering it.
Could that be the thermal cycling (day / night) which draws in the water during contraction cycle and allows releasing it during expansion cycle?

[ME]

Honza, I think I agree with your observation.

As far as I understand:

When the container was completely filled with water it should (I guess) have siphoned (by gravity) continuously from "outlet" to the lower "inlet"; just as it started out in your experiment.
But then the "outlet" should have had a source of water.

When the "inlet" inside the container finds an air-pocket the situation stabilizes and stops by equal pressure. I don' t think there can exist a vacuum inside the container, as suggested by the opening-post. In the "worst case" water would boil and so their would be water vapor pressure instead of an air-pocket with equal effects.
For the same reason: would your "P-trap" be sufficient?

With the air pocket changing volume, because of changing temperatures, the water-level in the "outlet" as well as the "inlet" would just fluctuate a bit.

---
The only benefit I can see for using this construction is a constant out-flow of water (until the tank is empty). And then re-use/share a single (yet unmentioned) engine to pump-up some water to refill the tank.
But then, why not use an aquaduct?

[Tarsier79]

Honza. I think I know why you couldn't get it to work. You need to put on some ruby slippers, click them together 3 times and repeat "This design is outside the box, stop thinking conventional physics"

[honza]

Have to confess the vids of the lectures on this system made me excited.
I can't understand a single word from it. So I guess it was my wishful thinking combined with the visual content that produced in me the belief it must be it.

Now I know why it wasn't enough to make it work. Next time I try your suggestion!

[Tarsier79]

I too was very interested. I moved each comment I could find to google translate to try to get an idea of what was happening. I beleive all were powered by water flow (ram pump), except one where water was coming out the outlet, and he was trying to make it work without the extra force from the stream, but the comments say he was unsuccessful.

Just a side note on most of the vids, you can see them hold their hand over a pipe before they plug it, then make a sort of flat hammer indication. I think that is the ram pump pulsing.