@moderator

[WaltzCee]

Norway has more than one fraudulent braggart claiming perpetual motion. I can think of two.

Jagoda,
JL isn't into your type. He's more of a guy's guy sort of guy. Although he represses it we can see as he projects those feelings on others, not to mention overt declarations of anal caning and such.

[AB Hammer]

All of Lindgaard is on my ignore list. I will be perusing a patent after Trumps inauguration. Then I will show how the wheel with gain is done.

[preoccupied]

AB Hammer if you invent a gravity wheel and you want to sell it, you cannot. You will damage the planet's gravitational orbit if you use gravity for energy. You may only earn the notoriety for finding the method of over unity. I bet you think that Climate change is bullshit too, don't you? Why don't you go into the desert and eat dollar bills?, because if you kill the entire planet you don't get to live anywhere nobody does and destroying any important part of our planet, even its gravitational orbit is very risky. Every damaged ecosystem is an atrocity, not just killing the entire world in a catastrophe but every oil spill, every extinct specie that we could have kept alive, is bad.

[Tarsier79]

Pre. You cannot damage gravity, as it is a product of mass.

[preoccupied]

Gravity is caused by heat in a vacuum. You can levitate by storing heat in a vacuum but you're only being propelled against Earth's gravity by creating your own gravitation. You are assuming that you can't create gravity this way because it has never been observed by you. Instead you assume what you do observe is all that there is and that because you see large masses have gravity that it's because of the mass itself. But actually other things can happen within the mass such as material behavior or heat or unusual momentum. It is actually heat though that I think causes gravity when stored in a vacuum. The energy from gravity comes from the stored energy on the Earth that it has received from the sun and other chemical reactions. The sun is not a fusion bomb, it's a potentially low oxygen chemical reaction that is throwing out radiation (not heat energy) and it's likely being fed a stream of fuel that is attracted to the gravitational pull of the sun by the fuel being cold and not storing heat. A stream of cool fuel likely ends up on the sun and burns for a long period of time in a chemical reaction that would not be very common on Earth. I believe that is why Mercury's orbit is off by just a little because it's being shoved around by loose fuel that has not yet fallen into the sun. You should not assume something that could be dangerous is safe until you know for absolute certainty that it is safe. This is a bigger deal than a new drug. It's a bigger deal than a new car. It's a bigger deal than a new type of projector for video or something. The research and development that should go into actually taking gravity from the Earth should be very complete before it's used. Say for example AB Hammer finds over unity, the mass use of it should be halted for decades or even a millennium and AB Hammer should accept a consolation prize, so that we know that using such a device does not have unintended consequences on its large scale use by many people. I mean, don't be goated into thinking it's necessary because of greed or environmental benefits. Every new product can be dangerous, so can't you see the magnitude of how much harm it could do if it were actually dangerous?

[AB Hammer]

preoccupied

Your gravity fears are unwarranted, for it is no different than people's movement effect. Think how silly it would sound to say (Stand still or you are hurting gravity)

[preoccupied]

I believe if you use gravity for work that you are adding load to the Earth. You will spend heat energy that which gives us gravity, and perhaps the Earth's rotation would increase speed as if the Earth were heavier but still the same size. Also using gravity for energy would be equivalent to shooting asteroids onto the planet. And this increase in load might attract asteroids to the planet that might otherwise not came. By creating "Holes" in the Earth's attraction that attract things into it because instead of a more even gravitational pull there are bubbles or craters in the gravitational attraction by spending part of the gravitational energy in certain section of the planet where the energy is being produced for electricity using gravity. AB Hammer I don't think that spending gravity is the same as moving, I think it adds load to the planet. The load has no mass and it will also change the gravitation attraction to other things in the solar system such as asteroids. I believe it would also spend heat energy and Earth's rotation would change and maybe even the Earth would start spinning faster.

[ME]

Pre, I don't understand.
What will happen to mass on a sunny day?

It's possible to cool down objects to near 0 Kelvin or heat up to temperatures comparable to the sun...
At some point things should have had a noticeable mass-effect (watt balance).

Human activity is well below the impact of tectonic plate shifts, tidal effects and atmospheric motion.
And the effects are under constant surveillance by our need for exact time pieces and positioning systems.

[preoccupied]

ME, You are not citing the physics that I say exists with its most important claim. Heating and cooling, which is what I said you then said in the second paragraph there for you but without including that it has to be in a vacuum which clearly is said by me in my statement as a requirement for what I said to be true. You are sticking to your own content without considering mine. I described in my post that you are referring to in your third paragraph that using gravity for energy is not the same as human activity. You're expressing a vote of confidence in using the perpetual motion machine because you are greedy for its advantages, which is the cause of all early use of dangerous products. For this situation, I have to say that my opinion is very firm on this that you cannot make assumptions about the effects of this product, because I do not believe that you should take gravity for granted since if you're wrong you could lose the benefits of gravity. Gravity is what could be damaged if you don't research enough the side effects. If you were a pharmaceutical company and you did something wrong, you would kill people maybe, but gravity changing might kill the entire planet. So greater scrutiny should go into whether it's safe, so you should completely look into my ideas about this even if you completely disagree with it. That is the nature of managing danger. I classify the use of gravity perpetual motion machine as a potential weapon of mass destruction.

[ME]

>it has to be in a vacuum which clearly is said by me in my statement as a requirement for what I said to be true
Earth is in a vacuum in relation to the sun. The Earth is heated by this sun: through the vacuum of space.
Thus the use of a perpetual motion machine around sea level at atmospheric pressure is safe?
Again: I don't understand - which is it?

> You are sticking to your own content without considering mine.
I said "I don't understand" and showed what I considered.
That means (to me at least): I ask for an explanation, with the possibility for you to explain where I might go wrong.

> using gravity for energy is not the same as human activity
Again: I don't understand. What's the difference?
Human activity while using and working against gravity: Creating skyscrapers, launching rockets with payloads, moving mountains...

Some effects:

• Three Gorges Dam (Yangtze River, Hubei, China) (lifting 175 m) :: Deviation in the Length of Day: 0.06 µS/yr
• Earth quake, Indian Ocean, Sumatra Indonesia (2004-12-26) :: Deviation in the Length of Day: 3 µS/yr
• Moon tidal friction: Deviation in the Length of Day :: 23 µS/yr
• Atmospheric Angular Momentum: Deviation in the Length of Day :: ±300 µS/yr

(I lost the sources of this info)

We would need an insane amount of perpetual motion devices to get even near the effect of this Chinese dam. Let's assume a PM which is able to lift some mass against earth gravity.

> You're expressing a vote of confidence in using the perpetual motion machine because you are greedy for its advantages
And then "You are sticking to your own content without considering mine."
I never "used" perpetual motion in my question, nor the reason. So I don't know how you get to such conclusion.

> Gravity is what could be damaged if you don't research enough the side effects.
I don't understand the side effects you are talking about. How can it be researched (if not for the watt balance for example)?

> I classify the use of gravity perpetual motion machine as a potential weapon of mass destruction.
I agree.


> I described in my post that you are referring to in your third paragraph...
It would be easier if you added some paragraphs as well.

[preoccupied]

I was not going to defend myself to the likes of you ME. You used enough question marks for me to feel like a big man if I am able to explain myself in a way that you can understand. So something that I don't know if I properly explained is that I think that sun is not sharing heat, that all of the heat is radiation from a chemical reaction. I think that heat does not escape into the vacuum of space. I think that heat is blocked by not having something to thermally exchange with. If you vacuum space the crawl space in your house it will be perfectly insulated, although you might get other side effects. Like I said that gravity is produced from heat inside of a vacuum. I have not researched this. You are getting information that I learned when I was 4 or 5 years old at least. All of my points are relevant though. What people say about the entire human race being destroyed due to use of a new product should be thoroughly looked into as to if they could be correct. You are asking me to repeat myself by asking some of your questions. Do you expect me to know the perfect answer? In regards to where you can have perpetual motion, I am making the assumption that all of the gravity on Earth is created by heat, that it would be the entire planets heat averaged out under the vacuum of space evenly and that this would produce fairly even gravity all of the way around the planet, except when perpetual motion gravity wheels are being used anywhere in the planet, which would create a bubble or crater in that specific location. The bubble or crater would be equivalent to the effect of an asteroid hitting the planet if the asteroid had no mass. So it would probably be liked sticking your finger in water, some up and down changes in gravity both maybe. That might cause unwanted objects to fly into the Earth like actual end of the world bullshit.

[WaltzCee]

This is my final post in this toxic thread. It seems to me this is one more attempt at pathetic attempts for attention. In my googling I noticed the author of the OP was thrown off a NASA forum. This should give them pause, maybe ask themselves, "if every where I go my ideas are laughed at and I'm sent packing is the entire world stupid and I'm the genius, or is it the other way around?"

I could help the author of this OP, if they really want the attention they seem to be seeking: Build something that works! You'll have more attention than you can handle.

• Edit: And you shut the hell up, Not_Joe_Mamma_Lindgard.

• Edit II: The author's "tootsie roll" is attention. That's the energy driving this perpetual cycle (psychol?); making outrageous claims (like he invented the question mark?) then getting hammered. I can almost hear a faint cry from the great beyond, the wisdom of some eternal (internal?) question. . .

• EditIII:This will help put the tootsie roll into context:
  • A man cannot get rid of his tapeworm. After repeated failures, his doctor refers him to a specialist who had success with highly unorthodox methods.
    
    The man goes and sees him in the backwoods. The first day the doctor has the man bend over and shoves a hardboiled egg up him; he waits two minutes, then follows the egg with a Tootsie Roll. He says, "Go home and come back tomorrow." Perplexed, the man obliges. The next day he does the same thing. Doc says to go home and promises he will solve this thing tomorrow.
    
    Trustingly, the man comes back for his final treatment. The doctor shoves the hardboiled egg up there, then does not follow it with a Tootsie Roll but grabs a mallet and waits. The tapeworm sticks its head out and says, "Hey, what the hell, where is my Tootsie Roll?" and the doctor whacks it over the head.
    For a fuller context read the article here:
    http://www.ronaldhart.com/display_colum ... umn_ID=477

[Not_Joe_Mamma_Lindgard]

you tell em, honey.

[ME]

• 
  I was not going to defend myself to the likes of you ME.
  You are getting information that I learned when I was 4 or 5 years old at least.
  I am making the assumption that all of the gravity on Earth is created by heat,
  I have not researched this.
  Do you expect me to know the perfect answer?
  
  ... equivalent to the effect of an asteroid hitting the planet if the asteroid had no mass...
  

Explained well enough.

(Walt, I like the indentation effect - not sure if I want to look right through not-JL )

[Not_James_Lindgaard]

Norway has more than one fraudulent braggart claiming perpetual motion. I can think of two.

Jagoda,
JL isn't into your type. He's more of a guy's guy sort of guy. Although he represses it we can see as he projects those feelings on others, not to mention overt declarations of anal caning and such.

You guys really don't have a life, do you ? Kind of why you guys are in here trying to impress each other. I mean seriously this is it.

Of course AB Hammer did invite me to his home so we could spend some time together in his shop. He said no to meeting in a public place.