Protoclocks, escapements and closing the loop in PM

[ME]

OK folks, did we agree to change to Artificial Gravity (AG) or are we still at Ersatz Gravity (EG)?
I don't really care...

No "AG" was me.
I'm just deeply annoyed by the term "Ersatz"... where does it come from?
It makes me puzzle every time, especially when combined with NG; "NG"? oh just Earth gravity, shouldn't that be "EG", no "EG" was something with a third derivative...huh?.

But it's not about me. The term just can't be found anywhere outside this forum as it's in no normal use (besides bringing you to some shady sources): a bad term and reference nobody needs.

Artificial-gravity (AG) seems to be the best term to use in this context and links to things more relevant. It gives a clear rotating space station-like image, and as such enables the ability to point&reference its meaning and effects to several outside sources for better explanations.... Actually it's just "Centripetal" (now we could finally calculate that stuff ourselves):so "CG"?. Even with "Fictitious" (FG?) one find more relevant information, while its meaning is so much better than "Ersatz"...

"EG": just against "Ersatz" - not against Grimer.
I vote for a scientific term which can be found on Wikipedia: Ersatz goods = usually considered of inferior quality to the good it replaces

[/rant]
Sorry for that, felt necessary.

Thumbs up for your workshop images.
Happy 2017

[Grimer]

OK folks, did we agree to change to Artificial Gravity (AG) or are we still at Ersatz Gravity (EG)?

I don't really care which except it seems one always has to redefine the term EG whenever it hasn't been used in a while as it is not intuitively obvious. I guess we would have the same problem with AG.

Frank, we've been friends a long time and I really appreciate your support and enthusiasm for the subject but I wish you would be a little more reserved in your announcements that someone has a working solution.

In my case I certainly don't have a working solution and have not claimed or asserted anything other than proposing a hypothesis and building a test rig to hopefully confirm the hypothesis is correct.

I believe that is the correct procedure by the Scientific Method.
One proposes a hypothesis of how something might work then develops
methods by which the hypothesis can be tested.

After successful testing and then adding in successful duplication of results by others one can then cautiously make claims as "fact". Until
then all statements are just hypotheticals and have no confirmation in the physical universe.

I really don't want to go down the road of others that loudly boast they have the solution but then go on for years without producing anything that would confirm their claims.

There are just too many variables and unknowns for anyone to make advance predictions of success IMHO.

Thanks Frank - you're the greatest and Happy New Year!

Oh yeah, happy Brexit too!

I am not saying that you are claiming to have the solution.
I'm saying that I believe you have the solution.

That's because I have such confidence in your abilities. :-)

I said to my friends "I believe that Britain will exit Europe".
I said to my friends "I believe that Trump will win the election".

Surely Trump would not have objected to that.

I'm not saying that Trump is boasting he will win the election.

But he must at least have thought he had a chance of winning
the election or he wouldn't have entered the bloody thing in the
first place, would he!

Wishing you a Happy New Year in which you help to

Make America Great Again

[helloha]

A question, does anyone know how the centrifugal artificial gravity works?

[Grimer]

...
But it's not about me. The term just can't be found anywhere outside this forum.....
...

Yes it can.

Google search on "ersatz gravity" and you get:

• About 697 results (0.19 seconds)

And ersatz gravity is not artificial. It's natural.

If I drag a lot of rocks to an orbit around the sun until my pile has the same mass as earth I suppose you will say the Newtonian Gravity that results is artificial.

The planet I've made may be artificial but the gravity that manifests itself is natural.

[agor95]

@helloha

Objects want to move in a straight line.

It takes energy to get them to move
and energy to stop.

To get the Object to go round in a Circle.
You need to use energy to deflect it for it's straight line direction.

These energy events people call forces.

Centrifugal artificial gravity is the object not wanting to be
deflected.

[WaltzCee]

• • But he must at least have thought he had a chance of winning
    the election or he wouldn't have entered the bloody thing in the
    first place, would he!
  • Grimer

This is naive. Third party candidates run all the time knowing they don't have a chance. It's also deflection.

It would seem, Frank, you have a full blown case of the PMS (Perpetual Motion Syndrome) virus. We've all had it. Take two doses of reality and call me in the morning. Storing energy in a flywheel isn't a new idea. Deriving some quantity by squaring squares and squares of squares doesn't make it more than what actually is there. Creating a mystical language of abracadabra to explain why the carpet is flying doesn't cause anyone to ignore the fishing line.

We see smoke. We see mirrors. We see fishing line.

[Ed]

...
But it's not about me. The term just can't be found anywhere outside this forum.....
...

Yes it can.

Google search on "ersatz gravity" and you get:

• About 697 results (0.19 seconds)

And ersatz gravity is not artificial. It's natural.

If I drag a lot of rocks to an orbit around the sun until my pile has the same mass as earth I suppose you will say the Newtonian Gravity that results is artificial.

The planet I've made may be artificial but the gravity that manifests itself is natural.

Frank, you should stop searching for "ersatz gravity", where the top result is this forum, and look up "ersatz".

ersatz. The ersatz version of something is an inferior substitute or imitation.

So how can it be natural?

[Grimer]

Inferior substitutes can still be natural.

Rump steak is an inferior substitute for fillet steak but equally natural,

[WaltzCee]

Crow is natural too. Crow sushi.

Thinking about the Dominant Flywheel, it's only a parametric oscillator. JC made that point (not my client's boy). Someone else made the point to build it. Looks simple enough. Cheaper than the build stated in this thread. Or simulate it. Or build a computer, an analog one electronically. Hardly any friction. You can gear that puppy up to megawatts! You will own the world!! Or maybe you could enhance this patent: https://www.google.com/patents/US6362718 from these fine gentlemen Stephen L. Patrick, Thomas E. Bearden, James C. Hayes, Kenneth D. Moore, James L. Kenny. Maybe phase arrayed fields dancing amongst themselves and squeezing a little more out of it? No moving parts.

But maybe try and replicate the Dominant Flywheel. Run it with the feedback and clock it. Do it without. Just because we have a few screws loose doesn't mean we can't do things in an orderly fashion. Or not.

[ME]

The term just can't be found anywhere outside this forum

Yes it can.
Google search on "ersatz gravity" and you get: About 697 results (0.19 seconds) And ersatz gravity is not artificial. It's natural.

My search bubble: Ongeveer 835.000 resultaten (0,52 seconden)
1. BesslerWheel, 2 & 3. Some bike, 4. New scientist: "The LIGO team is infamous for secretly introducing ersatz gravitational wave signals..." , 5,6,7: Google books, 8. a skateboard? ...
I tried to add some relevant terms to approach your 697 by filtering things down, but those results increasingly missed the "ersatz" part.
I tried several other search engines, didn't succeed. I even tried Bing (20.000 results). It gave me this shady website (Actually a very pretty website for its SciFi content, but not relevant).

Where does EG originate anyway?
The Cambridge dictionary seems to agree for no apparent reason.

How was this, my other requote, and the load of wiki-links in my previous post not a request for any scientifically relevant external link?
Please include the possible situation where my search results are somewhat skewed and/or filtered beyond my control while you probably take things (like search results) for granted: that's the reason I try to provide links. Specifically wikipedia, not because it's necessarily complete but because it's the most neutral external resource I know with a consistent and clean layout).

Grimer: FAIL
I don't know why you avoid such thing. You could have saved us two whole pages of nonsense by providing some relevant link at this post, but chose some "implementation" over an explanation..

[Grimer]

https://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en&a ... as_rights=

This is getting really tedious. You've got your view, I've got mine.

If my use of EG offends you so much why don't you just put me on your ignore list. As far as I'm concerned as long as the moderator allows then I will continue to use it. At the moment they are trying to suppress free speech in the U.S. of A. Let's try and preserve it here.

[ME]

... a few more posts to go before trashing the next page too...

repeat: any scientifically relevant external link?

--
add:

This is getting really tedious. You've got your view, I've got mine.

If my use of EG offends you so much why don't you just put me on your ignore list. As far as I'm concerned as long as the moderator allows then I will continue to use it. At the moment they are trying to suppress free speech in the U.S. of A. Let's try and preserve it here.

Indeed it is... :-/

As said: It's not about "view", it's about reproducibility.
What is "Ersatz" ? What is the formula? Who invented this word? Who also uses it? What are the benefits, the effects, the causes... etc etc etc

You could hang this onto problems of "free speech", but that's irrelevant.
Free speech is thought to be about the individual who should be able to insult every one and every thing, but it's not.
Free speech is the ability to share any idea. Ersatz is not: It is literally a fake idea.

All this was not any problem if it where not for the reason there simply exist relevant scientifically worthy words which explains things perfectly !
And can be found on the internet, with formula's and videos, and both good and bad explanations, study courses, scientific papers.... you name it.

• Artificial gravity
• Centripetal force
• Centrifugal force
• Fictious
• ...

Ersatz: ZIP, nada...
"Ersatz" is exactly that kind of "Free Speech" which is responsible for suppressing new ideas. It directly causes CloudCamper's idea in the corner of Fringe Science, UFO's, shady websites and whatever direction I suspect CC does not want to go. (I assume my conclusion from this post.)
Only after this is settled we could investigate the viability of CC's idea, with EG it is just nonsense by definition.
Not by "view", but by association.

When you had read carefully you would have read I included some possible "search bubble": provide me a link where thing get explained and get it over with: until then "Ersatz" is only in you own mind. (I thought you where at least a tiny bit scientifically apt).

Grimer: Fail 2.

[Furcurequs]

After using the time range feature of Google to search for "ersatz gravity," I found that Grimer may have actually been the first to coin the term!!

http://www.besslerwheel.com/forum/viewt ... ght=ersatz

I found only two instances of "ersatz gravity" on the internet prior to Grimer's post.

There was a moment at the party when I suddenly longed to be alone, to watch Kalaj roll a cigarette in the corner and make fun of the entire party with its jumbo-ersatz gravity hanging from its jumbo-ersatz chandeliers and its froufrou guests who kissy-kissied and huggy-huggied with their jumbo-ersatz show of wealth and plenitude.

http://www.theparisreview.org/fiction/5 ... dre-aciman

That article uses "ersatz" all throughout it, though, while making fun of how Americans love everything big and fake!

...and then this one from another online forum:

I remember my day of discovery--in an attempt to isolate my fuel problems I nylon-tied a yard stick to a seat strut and attached a length of fuel line sticking straight up with a vented squirt bottle (like a mustard bottle at a diner) jammed in as an ersatz gravity tank (I do not suggest you do this!).

http://eknclassic.com/viewtopic.php?p=551263

Obviously here, though, the "ersatz" is referring to the "gravity tank." He made a makeshift gravity tank out of a squirt bottle.

Since the guy in the Paris review article was making fun of Americans by going all "jumbo-ersatz" on everything American, implying that the gravity of the party was big and fake, he's obviously not talking about the same sort of artificial gravity that Grimer is!! So, my vote goes to Grimer for having coined the term referring to the fictitious centrifugal force!!

...lol

Oh, wait! Wait!!!

Grimer, I am so sorry! I forgot to check Google books.

It seems that Carl Sagan beat you to it!!

Initially, in this alternate vision, people would move out into artificial habitats — space colonies — which would spin to produce a simulacrum of gravity, ersatz gravity.

Darn you, Carl Sagan!

That was from A reader-study guide for Cosmos published in 1980, btw.

https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=Bf3 ... hl=en&sa=X

..haha

[agor95]

@ME

Good Search Work; lets make this a little blue dot in our rear view mirror.

[cloud camper]

Well alrighty then.

If it's good enough for Carl Sagan, it's good enough for me!