Solved: Width for Height Conundrum

[Silvertiger]

It's actually not a bad concept helloha. Not bad at all. You should start a topic for it, get feedback and work on it.

[Andyb]

Helloha, just to share some of the pointless shit in my head that may help ,may be not ,did you know that a cell creating hydrogen and oxygen has no ceiling of pressure just the restriction of the design of the cell it's self , i have said it before but you may of missed it ,all the best Andyb

[helloha]

a cell creating hydrogen and oxygen has no ceiling of pressure just the restriction of the design of the cell it's self

I'm guessing you're saying the gas need to go through compression first, before proceeding to the next stage, example like the helium tank (where the gas has been compressed) inflating the balloon,

.... which means the design of the cell need to also include a device that can do the compression and transfer the gas from one medium to another (from the cell to the balloon and from the balloon to the generator).

Although I have no idea how companies did it commerically, but it's pretty interesting if someone can custom design that device :)

[Tarsier79]

I misunderstood your exact design. It does have its good points, and its bad.

Hydrogen and Oxygen are combined by ignition to create water, but I am unsure if there is an instantaneous expansion, then a contraction, or if there is an instant contraction., but you could use this to recover energy. You do not need pressure. However, the oxygen and hydrogen will require a massive expansion chamber when separated from water.

[helloha]

I think you're describing a combustion engine/generator, like the diesel type but instead of fuel & air injection, it is replaced with hydrogen & oxygen. I'm also unsure whether is there any expansion when the gas explode during ignite, or it create a vacuum/contraction (because both gas become water, which might create an empty space in the chamber).... this is beyond my paygrade....

But you have brought up an interesting situation, how come the industry are more focus on the fuel cell than the combustion type, cost or efficiency consideration?

There is this one issue, if 1 litre of water is converted to hydrogen and oxygen, can it be recovered back to at least more than 90% of the original 1 litre of water.... I have a feeling (it's a guess) it might be less than 50% or even less

Anyway here is some basic course involving hydrogen https://youtu.be/jALmfKCVH_Y?t=306

[helloha]

if 1 litre of water is converted to hydrogen and oxygen, can it be recovered back to at least more than 90% of the original 1 litre of water

Just checking whether have anyone seem any example of separating the two gases from water through electrolysis, and later get back near the same amount of water through combustion or whatever methods ?

Anyway if some of water loses is contributed by water vapour, then can use condensation to convert vapour back to liquid; and due to higher atmosphere being colder, it can act as a nature cooler to condense the vapour.... and on the plus side, maybe liquid water might even be formed on the outside and stored together on the water bucket.

[ME]

Search for "HHO" or https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oxyhydrogen

Some demonstration:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-9EmgSowldw

Some arbitrary (there are a lot) DIY videos:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FaBm7USGZlA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yItH6S_dUd0

[agor95]

@Helloha

In an ideal world we would split water with High Voltage with high AC.
That would be done under pressure so the gases would be dissolved in the water.

Then under pressure spray it into a combustion chamber.

The combustion chamber piston is forced down and back by
expansion and contraction of the volume.

The timing is naturally the important point here.

Regards

[helloha]

Thks for the info and video links :)

Presently I'm trying to find out how much water can be recovered....
if 1 litre of water is split into hydrogen and oxygen first, then combust (or any other methods) that same volume of gases, can the same (or slightly less) litre of water be recovered ?

From the video above, one bottle full of gas, when combust, only have so very little of water.... I wonder is it only less than 1% of water recovered ?




....a side note: it's hydrogen, I've no intention to play with it physically ;P

[ME]

I never played with it either, it's just interesting stuff... Perhaps, one day.... with more courage, tools and space....

There's the same amount of molecules inside the sealed bottle, thus the same Mass and Volume of water gets converted & recovered in a chain-reaction (a pure guess: >95%, <100% because of impurities and catalysts).
But basically: Gas vs Liquid :-)
The HHO [gas] combines to water-vapor [gas] which condenses (cools down) to form a [Liquid] + [vacuum].

[helloha]

same amount of molecules inside the sealed bottle, thus the same Mass and Volume of water gets converted & recovered in a chain-reaction (a pure guess: >95%, <100% because of impurities and catalysts)

It's supposed to be (and I also believe it to be so), but due to lack of experimental demonstration of the water being recovered, and because I observed that most people are mainly focusing either on the electrolysis or hydrogen generator research, the water recovered is pretty much an overlooked area.

But the good news is... any overlooked research is also where opportunities can be found.

[helloha]

Just in case the byproduct water is too little after the combustion of hydrogen & oxygen,
so instead of increasing the height upward, increase it downward by going deep underground.
Fill the water bucket up from reservoir, while sending the byproduct pure water directly for consumption.

[Silvertiger]

Finally got a successful wheel test. I had to redesign the whole thing for a different kind of shift. It now drives a wheel and it is mounted to the wheel, and on top of that, the wheel turns in both directions, whichever I specify in initial RPM input. Anyways, I lifted a 200 Lbs load (90.7 kg) using 40 Lbs effort (18.1 kg) in a rather unique arrangement inspired by one of the MT drawings. In my simulation, the effort drops a total of 5-3/8" (0.137 m) and lifts the load 5" (0.127 m).

I measured the KE of the load - a dead even line that did not waver in the slightest. It remained at the same exact oscillation frequency until it ran out of memory.

Edit: I'm going to run more tests and try to challenge the efficiency of the system as I am not yet convinced it is 100% lossless. Just trying to cover the basics lol.

[Tarsier79]

Did you end up showing Fletcher? What was his conclusion?

Is there a gain in energy in the entire system? A Fletcher term: have you accounted for the whole "energy budget", input vs output?

[Silvertiger]

It isn't finished Tarsier. I'm still working on it. In it's present form it runs just shy of 90,000 frames in sim. But that is with just one "shove". I'll work on it some more and see if Fletcher can get an accurate efficiency percentage on it. Its always good to have someone who is willing to help lol. First I need to see if I can harvest the KE from the 200 Lbs weight to feed back into a reset like a periodic " boost." I ended up asking myself if there was a different way to shift the leverage without allowing the heavy to drop south of the fulcrum. So I did and the result is a permanently top heavy lever lol. Although the heavy weight now rises and calls, it never falls past the fulcrum now.