A Perpetual Motion device

[ME]

I could even get it to fountain inside the container which was above the input water level.

Didn't know it can do that fountain effect, took me some time before I figure what you mean :)

A bit difficult to photograph.. it took me some duct-tape.. tried anyway, see attachment.

I suspect it needs a slightly low pressure inside the jar; even though that thing can't handle a vacuum.

If I have to put a number on it: the height of the "fountain" was about 1 cm above container-water-level, while the difference between input/output was about 10 cm.

[helloha]

the height of the "fountain" was about 1 cm above container-water-level

just to add on: the flow of water can still work so long the container-water-level is above the "fountain", the fountain is more for "look amazing" effect.

the difference between input/output was about 10 cm.

As it turns out, this doesn't matter. What matters is the difference between the water level and the output/outlet... XD

it needs a slightly low pressure inside the jar

Actually, it will "create" a slightly low pressure, since
(1) when the water flows out of the container,
(2) there will be more room/space in the container,
(3) which mean less air (take note the amount of air is still the same),
(4) also mean less pressure;
(5) in order to "normalize" that pressure, water will be sucked in to fill up the space

[Tarsier79]

I disagree.

I beleive the difference in input/output is how much power you have. The more power, the higher the fountain. The position of the fou tain can be much lower than both input and output, making the pressure inside higher, or it can also be lower, or the same. The air will equalize with the water pressure inside the bottle.

[rlortie]

helloha,

(5) in order to "normalize" that pressure, water will be sucked in to fill up the space.

Although it is considered normal to use the term "suck", it is in error. According to physics when you or a pump suck on say a straw or pipe, you/it is removing the atmospheric pressure. Hence the ambient pressure outside forces the liquid up the pipe or straw.

All that has been discussed on this topic takes back a few years when we discussed gold dredging and how the hydraulic suction actually picks up rocks and heavy minerals.

http://www.goldgold.com/gold-prospectin ... dging.html
https://www.keeneeng.com/pamphlets/golddredge.html


Ralph

[Tarsier79]

I think suck is perfectly acceptable. Your lungs expand, creating a lower pressure. You are both sucking, and the environment is pushing. As long as you understand it is due to the pressure differential...


1. The hemisphere is sucked together by the lower pressure inside.
2. The hemisphere is pushed together by the greater atmospheric pressure.

IMO, both are correct.

Add. Just because accepted science says something, doesn't mean it is 100% correct and there are no other explanations.

[ME]

Indeed it shouldn't really matter, but it technically does.

A vacuum can't suck because there's little to nothing to apply any action that sucks.
The main problem with the pressure differential is that there's a limit in the amount of vacuum: It can't get negative and thus the differential depends on the amount of (atmospheric) pressure on the other side. Hence:

Mother nature plays an important role by exerting only 14.7 psi on any body of water at sea level. This limits the suction head of centrifugal pumps to 33.9 feet...

Perhaps to add:
Pressure is a force of particles in motion: they transfer momentum.

[helloha]

Oh, if the word "suck" doesn't sound right, then use "draw in the water or air"... or "fill up", bottomline either water or air will occupy the vacuum (or low pressure) space

Just an interesting trick
(1) having the container(using plastic bottle)-water-level is the same (or below or no water at all) with the inlet tube,
(2) squeeze the plastic bottle to push out more water (or air)
(3) then plug (using your hand) the outlet
(4) release the squeeze of the bottle
(5) now there's an actual fountain shooting up from the inlet

[helloha]

Testing on a buoy behaviour

- refer to image

- a rather poor & messy setup, but still can see the result

[helloha]

Testing on pushing the water out

- refer to image

- a total failure, too many problems :(

[alfilmx]

Please... I know what a RAM pump is, this is a different device altogether, what you saw a RAM pump being used there is just the extension from the tank so that the water can be pumped even higher. There is no need for the RAM pump. You saw a bigger sized PVC anywhere between the tank and the outlet this is where the air bubbles will escape since it is no good for bubbles to be in the pipe. BTW a ram pump needs to be lower than the water source/inlet, which is not the case here.

BTW im don't speak Thai either

You're absolutely right, I've seen those water pumps.

[helloha]

For the case of hydraulic lift, instead of using the smaller surface area as input, reverse the process;
use the larger surface area as input, and there is no load at the output (smaller surface area).

Image taken from here http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/pasc.html

So the larger the surface area and the greater the input force,
the higher the fluid rises up at the output.

This concept utilizes the width and length (surface area),
while the hydrogen/water idea utilizes the height.

Whereas in the case of Bessler Wheel,
from the clue "power was directly proportional to its diameter",
it probably utilizes the height and width.

.... anyway theory is easy, physically testing it is hard a.k.a I give up

[Tarsier79]

Im pretty sure it is a zero sum game Helloha. Even though you are using a liquid, you are actually just using simple leverage.

[helloha]

Yep, hydraulic lift is essentially just a simple lever, instead of using a rigid bar, it uses fluid as the medium.

The whole concept is based on lever and buoyancy,
and knowing how to use water as a weigh and when to use water as a fluid.
What is only needed throughout the process is .... open/close valves & lock/unlock latches

[helloha]

Tips for the Valve

If manually opening a big-sized valve, it would be difficult;
But if opening a small-sized valve first, then combine with force of the water from the small valve, it might be much easier.

[Tarsier79]

I don't get it. Are you using dissimilar fluids? why would the level increase on the RHS above its normal water level? You can calculate the leverage fluid has by calculating its displacement.