By doubling the input area to 2000 Sq cm you are reducing the pressure per unit area by half, so the water level in the output will only be half as high ie 50 cm .
To get the water level in the output tube back up to 100 cm you will have to double the load to 200 Kg on the piston area of 2000 Sq cm .
So you need to re label the diagram to "Solid - 200 Kg " (not "greater than 100Kg"). ie to get the water level in the output to go higher than the 1m you still have to add more weight to the 200Kg .
A Perpetual Motion device
Moderator: scott
re: A Perpetual Motion device
Have had the solution to Bessler's Wheel approximately monthly for over 30 years ! But next month is "The One" !
re: A Perpetual Motion device
Art
So this one fit your description better ?
So this one fit your description better ?
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‘If you can’t explain it to a 11-year-old, you probably don’t understand it yourself.’
For simplicity is genius.
For simplicity is genius.
re: A Perpetual Motion device
Yep , that fits the description .
Have had the solution to Bessler's Wheel approximately monthly for over 30 years ! But next month is "The One" !
re: A Perpetual Motion device
Art
OK I have taken the time and dedication to know your interpretation of the hydraulic,
but I will still follow my view on taking the output area (resulting in water rising) into account,
so we should agree to disagree, cool :)
OK I have taken the time and dedication to know your interpretation of the hydraulic,
but I will still follow my view on taking the output area (resulting in water rising) into account,
so we should agree to disagree, cool :)
‘If you can’t explain it to a 11-year-old, you probably don’t understand it yourself.’
For simplicity is genius.
For simplicity is genius.
re: A Perpetual Motion device
Yeah OK : )
However could you briefly summarise
"taking the output area (resulting in water rising) into account,"
- I don't understand , and didn't realise I was disagreeing with it !
However could you briefly summarise
"taking the output area (resulting in water rising) into account,"
- I don't understand , and didn't realise I was disagreeing with it !
Have had the solution to Bessler's Wheel approximately monthly for over 30 years ! But next month is "The One" !
re: A Perpetual Motion device
From what I have read Helloha, I agree 100% with Art's explanations, and your last diagram.
Plus you didn't answer my question about the reset, and the buoyant piston, even if you could get it to fountain over.
The answer to this will help Art, I and anyone else trying to understand where you are going with it, why you are trying to do what you are trying to do, and if we can help you with a solution. I am not interested in reading step by step instructions for days or weeks, only to find out my time has been wasted (as it has on at least another threaD).
Add: varying input/output ratios will not help the situation, because your ratios change with eachother. Water will move to its lowest state of energy. So the only way to spurt water up above the input is to expend energy on the input greater than you expect out.
Plus you didn't answer my question about the reset, and the buoyant piston, even if you could get it to fountain over.
The answer to this will help Art, I and anyone else trying to understand where you are going with it, why you are trying to do what you are trying to do, and if we can help you with a solution. I am not interested in reading step by step instructions for days or weeks, only to find out my time has been wasted (as it has on at least another threaD).
Add: varying input/output ratios will not help the situation, because your ratios change with eachother. Water will move to its lowest state of energy. So the only way to spurt water up above the input is to expend energy on the input greater than you expect out.
re: A Perpetual Motion device
Tarsier79
I will still do a step by step instruction.
One thing that puzzled me is how come people only know about the standard hydraulic, but didn't seem to know the other version..... overlooked or overshadowed ? It's only the reverse. Anyway the only application that I know utilizes that least known hydraulic is the toy water pistol... except the pistol uses spring for its reset :)
The image attached I take from this site,
http://science.howstuffworks.com/transp ... aulic1.htm
I will still do a step by step instruction.
One thing that puzzled me is how come people only know about the standard hydraulic, but didn't seem to know the other version..... overlooked or overshadowed ? It's only the reverse. Anyway the only application that I know utilizes that least known hydraulic is the toy water pistol... except the pistol uses spring for its reset :)
The image attached I take from this site,
http://science.howstuffworks.com/transp ... aulic1.htm
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‘If you can’t explain it to a 11-year-old, you probably don’t understand it yourself.’
For simplicity is genius.
For simplicity is genius.
re: A Perpetual Motion device
So far I'm not impressed. This proves Art and my point about the level not being above the input. You have to extrapolate. I still feel you would be better to get to the point.
re: A Perpetual Motion device
XD
A basic look at the water level after opening a hole in the piston
A basic look at the water level after opening a hole in the piston
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‘If you can’t explain it to a 11-year-old, you probably don’t understand it yourself.’
For simplicity is genius.
For simplicity is genius.
re: A Perpetual Motion device
Also the same as above, opening a hole within the piston, this time joining the water above and below the piston.
Although the end result doesn't give an equal water level, so did a test to see.... also did not have equal water level.... mmm
Although the end result doesn't give an equal water level, so did a test to see.... also did not have equal water level.... mmm
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‘If you can’t explain it to a 11-year-old, you probably don’t understand it yourself.’
For simplicity is genius.
For simplicity is genius.
re: A Perpetual Motion device
The water is attracted to the sides of the straw due to the surface tension of the water.
re: A Perpetual Motion device
Yep, surface tension is the most possible answer.
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Just post this to show a failed setup, initially meant to test whether the water level is the same, by replicating from the previous posted image, the one with the piston with an opening.
A silly setup using cloth wrapped in plastic bag to act as piston, it is supposed to stick the "piston" to the middle of the bottle, but the "piston" keep flowing back up. And when pushing the piston down, water seeping through the edges... not that it matter for this test, but it presents the piston problem of water leakage.
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Just post this to show a failed setup, initially meant to test whether the water level is the same, by replicating from the previous posted image, the one with the piston with an opening.
A silly setup using cloth wrapped in plastic bag to act as piston, it is supposed to stick the "piston" to the middle of the bottle, but the "piston" keep flowing back up. And when pushing the piston down, water seeping through the edges... not that it matter for this test, but it presents the piston problem of water leakage.
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‘If you can’t explain it to a 11-year-old, you probably don’t understand it yourself.’
For simplicity is genius.
For simplicity is genius.
re: A Perpetual Motion device
From the image, the spring cannot rebounded back to its original length, due to water stopping its action as water is incompressible. But if there's an opening for the water to flow through, then the spring can move up, while the water flow down via the opening.
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Another version is, the spring is pressed down by weight (or force) of water, it can't rebounded back up. But when there's an opening, the water will start to drain away thru it, thus weight/force reduced. Then the spring will start to bounce back up.
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Yet another version, again the spring is pressed down by weight (or force) of water. But when there's an opening, the weight of the water "disappear".... or the weight/force is no longer pressing down. Then the spring start to bounce back up, but there will be pressure from the water to resist the spring. So while the spring pushes up, water flow thru the opening.
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Another version is, the spring is pressed down by weight (or force) of water, it can't rebounded back up. But when there's an opening, the water will start to drain away thru it, thus weight/force reduced. Then the spring will start to bounce back up.
*******
Yet another version, again the spring is pressed down by weight (or force) of water. But when there's an opening, the weight of the water "disappear".... or the weight/force is no longer pressing down. Then the spring start to bounce back up, but there will be pressure from the water to resist the spring. So while the spring pushes up, water flow thru the opening.
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‘If you can’t explain it to a 11-year-old, you probably don’t understand it yourself.’
For simplicity is genius.
For simplicity is genius.
re: A Perpetual Motion device
Image is from one of the description of the previous post, the weight/force of water pressed down the spring; and when there's opening, water flow thru and spring bounce back up.
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‘If you can’t explain it to a 11-year-old, you probably don’t understand it yourself.’
For simplicity is genius.
For simplicity is genius.
re: A Perpetual Motion device
Beside the spring, can also use buoy to lift the piston up,
but like with spring, it need an opening in order to be able to lift the piston up.
The image attached is only showing the piston resting on top of the water,
not able to be pulled up by the buoys
but like with spring, it need an opening in order to be able to lift the piston up.
The image attached is only showing the piston resting on top of the water,
not able to be pulled up by the buoys
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‘If you can’t explain it to a 11-year-old, you probably don’t understand it yourself.’
For simplicity is genius.
For simplicity is genius.