Mike...
You were right. It is possible to Copy a design and Paste it into the WM2D Workspace. Unfortunately, the result is not Runable. The reason is because the picture pasted in is only an image file and not a .dxf file.
If you have, indeed, found a special shape and position for the rubber track that prevents a CW torque from being produced that stops wheel rotation, then maybe you have a workable design!
You say that the CW torque on the wheel is due to the weight of the rubber track pressing down on the roller. Yes, I can see how this would be possible. However, I would imagine that the raising of the eccentric weight also plays a big role. Anyway, if the CW torque due to the weight of the rubber track pressing on the roller is eliminated, then all that is necessary for this design to work is for the eccentric weights on the wheels descending (left) side to fall a greater distance than the distances that the eccentric weight on the roller in contact with the rubber track and the eccentric weights on the ascending side of the wheel rise.
At this point, it looks like this design justifies the building of a physical model...good luck with it!
ken
Mikes Wheel Idea
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re: Mikes Wheel Idea
On 7/6/06, I found, in any overbalanced gravity wheel with rotation rate, ω, axle to CG distance d, and CG dip angle φ, the average vertical velocity of its drive weights is downward and given by:
Vaver = -2(√2)πdωcosφ
Vaver = -2(√2)πdωcosφ
re: Mikes Wheel Idea
This one I need to try !!
Mike, did you know those polygons don't work well in WM2D? (inversed reaction force)
So what if you made the rubber track of something else; will a straight bar do, or a circle, or a combination?
Mike, did you know those polygons don't work well in WM2D? (inversed reaction force)
So what if you made the rubber track of something else; will a straight bar do, or a circle, or a combination?
Marchello E.
-- May the force lift you up. In case it doesn't, try something else.---
-- May the force lift you up. In case it doesn't, try something else.---
re: Mikes Wheel Idea
Hi Mike, I have seen your designs and I think this very interesting. If the force requested to rotate one small wheel (180°) is less then left torque force this system can work.
re: Mikes Wheel Idea
OK guys,
I found a better way to put this on WM2D, and it seems to run a little better and shows more torque. Although, this design would be much harder to build in the real world.
I used a series of cogs and a toothed drive wheel with a ratchet pawl to hold drive wheel position during decent.
Ken, Sorry about the copy and paste deal I thought it would be able to work.
thank you
Mike
I found a better way to put this on WM2D, and it seems to run a little better and shows more torque. Although, this design would be much harder to build in the real world.
I used a series of cogs and a toothed drive wheel with a ratchet pawl to hold drive wheel position during decent.
Ken, Sorry about the copy and paste deal I thought it would be able to work.
thank you
Mike
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re: Mikes Wheel Idea
I tried to build the full wheel on WM2D but it gets realy slow I dont think my computer is capable.
To me this is a proof of concept approach and the real tests must be experienced in real world conditions.
I have set the air resistance to high and it still performed as I hoped.
Here is what happens at the 6:00 position
To me this is a proof of concept approach and the real tests must be experienced in real world conditions.
I have set the air resistance to high and it still performed as I hoped.
Here is what happens at the 6:00 position
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re: Mikes Wheel Idea
Well, I've posted it somewhere before, but I can't find it and I can't find the original link. There was a clock made (in 1812 I think), that had a faux power source almost exactly like this lastest version of the design. Of course it was actually spring powered, but if the design really worked then it wouldn't need the spring, so I don't think this design works. I'll look a little more, but if I can't find it I'd appreciate some help from someone who remembers.
EDIT Gordon found it, at the bottom of this page:
http://www.physics.uq.edu.au/physics_mu ... eleton.htm
(Click to enlarge, note curved rack at bottom.)
EDIT Gordon found it, at the bottom of this page:
http://www.physics.uq.edu.au/physics_mu ... eleton.htm
(Click to enlarge, note curved rack at bottom.)
Disclaimer: I reserve the right not to know what I'm talking about and not to mention this possibility in my posts. This disclaimer also applies to sentences I claim are quotes from anybody, including me.
re: Mikes Wheel Idea
Jonathan,
I have come to the sad conclusion that this design Will Not Work just as snpssaini tried to tell me. I have received 3 E-Mails full of information on this type of wheel and why they don't work. Enough information to convince me that it will not work.
One good reason was centrifugal force will cause all weights to rest at the outer most edges of wheel and the rubber track or cog type track would suffer major friction and or destructive impacts.
Sorry guys I guess I should of listened to your replies a little more, the answers were there all along.
Thank you,
Mike
I have come to the sad conclusion that this design Will Not Work just as snpssaini tried to tell me. I have received 3 E-Mails full of information on this type of wheel and why they don't work. Enough information to convince me that it will not work.
One good reason was centrifugal force will cause all weights to rest at the outer most edges of wheel and the rubber track or cog type track would suffer major friction and or destructive impacts.
Sorry guys I guess I should of listened to your replies a little more, the answers were there all along.
Thank you,
Mike
re: Mikes Wheel Idea
Bzzt .. error message
Last edited by Fletcher on Fri Aug 05, 2005 9:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.
re: Mikes Wheel Idea
All the same, thanks for your contribution Mike !
Where's Georg when you need him to show you exactly how to get this to work :)
Where's Georg when you need him to show you exactly how to get this to work :)
re: Mikes Wheel Idea
Georg...what a Trouble Farce!
re: Mikes Wheel Idea
A certain wheel with a diameter of ca. 2 meters in diameter at a speed of 60 RPM will make the internal weights defy gravity and "will cause weights to rest at the outer most edges of wheel", because of the centrifugal force...!! But are you saying that the device is not working at lower speed?One good reason was centrifugal force will cause all weights to rest at the outer most edges of wheel
Marchello E.
-- May the force lift you up. In case it doesn't, try something else.---
-- May the force lift you up. In case it doesn't, try something else.---
re: Mikes Wheel Idea
Hello ME,
WM2D says it will at low speed. When my test wheel is done, I will know for sure.
Georg says that the centrifugal force will govern the RPM and not let it get out of control.
but I'm not sure what he means by this:
Thank you
Mike
WM2D says it will at low speed. When my test wheel is done, I will know for sure.
Georg says that the centrifugal force will govern the RPM and not let it get out of control.
but I'm not sure what he means by this:
Can someone help me understandBut he wasted 100 percent of the energy instead of reusing it. We work with 2 systems, one acting against the other.
If you have two systems working against each other wouldn't they cancel out?We work with 2 systems, one acting against the other.
Thank you
Mike
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re: Mikes Wheel Idea
This one turned at low speed. Try it for yourself on WM2D. Maby the people saying it won't work just don't want us to build it, and find out it does.
Mike
Mike
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re: Mikes Wheel Idea
Mike, I can't let you get away with a comment like that :)
Everyone who takes the time & effort to ...
a). understand someone else's design ideas (often incomplete & often a "moving feast") & ...
b). critique/rebut/refute/confirm those ideas from their own personal analysis &/or experience & then explain their reasoning ...
leave themselves wide open to criticism of self serving, self interest. It's easier to just play "fat, dumb & happy" isn't it & not open yourself up to possibly looking foolish ? The same obviously apply's to guy's like yourself brave enough to post ideas for discussion.
I personally think there is a stronger moral fibre running thru this board than perhaps you give credit for with that hopefully throw away line.
I personally don't have much time for one off unsubstantiated statements such as "that won't work", without the accompanying explanations. That's how we all progress forward, by learning from others experiences.
If I perceived a "conflict of interest" I would simply not contribute to the discussion if I felt strongly enough about it. I don't believe to many here would try & give anybody a "bum steer" or have other secret agendas.
... Why don't you post up the email reply's you got saying why it wouldn't work so that others could learn from them & make up their own minds. Surely the mailers didn't specify that they remain anonymous ? If so take their names out.
Now to try & answer your questions.
Only a real build will give you the answers to your questions of operating at low speed & you appear well on the way to that. No offence intended here & correct me if I'm wrong, but you may have limited experience with wm2d & its parameter settings, which would cause me to have some doubt about its veracity in this instance. I'm not that crash hot myself with only limited use.
Georg's second system working against the first is the V belt drive connected to the outer wheel. He figures that because they are both turning in the same direction that this is somehow different from the stationary example you gave. He anticipates that the rubber V belt will allow some stretch etc to absorb braking energy & then give it back again in spades. He says that timing is super critical to catch the "crest of the wave" so to speak otherwise there is nothing to be gained. Go figure !
Everyone who takes the time & effort to ...
a). understand someone else's design ideas (often incomplete & often a "moving feast") & ...
b). critique/rebut/refute/confirm those ideas from their own personal analysis &/or experience & then explain their reasoning ...
leave themselves wide open to criticism of self serving, self interest. It's easier to just play "fat, dumb & happy" isn't it & not open yourself up to possibly looking foolish ? The same obviously apply's to guy's like yourself brave enough to post ideas for discussion.
I personally think there is a stronger moral fibre running thru this board than perhaps you give credit for with that hopefully throw away line.
I personally don't have much time for one off unsubstantiated statements such as "that won't work", without the accompanying explanations. That's how we all progress forward, by learning from others experiences.
If I perceived a "conflict of interest" I would simply not contribute to the discussion if I felt strongly enough about it. I don't believe to many here would try & give anybody a "bum steer" or have other secret agendas.
... Why don't you post up the email reply's you got saying why it wouldn't work so that others could learn from them & make up their own minds. Surely the mailers didn't specify that they remain anonymous ? If so take their names out.
Now to try & answer your questions.
Only a real build will give you the answers to your questions of operating at low speed & you appear well on the way to that. No offence intended here & correct me if I'm wrong, but you may have limited experience with wm2d & its parameter settings, which would cause me to have some doubt about its veracity in this instance. I'm not that crash hot myself with only limited use.
Georg's second system working against the first is the V belt drive connected to the outer wheel. He figures that because they are both turning in the same direction that this is somehow different from the stationary example you gave. He anticipates that the rubber V belt will allow some stretch etc to absorb braking energy & then give it back again in spades. He says that timing is super critical to catch the "crest of the wave" so to speak otherwise there is nothing to be gained. Go figure !