Pursuing the same aim with the same system

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nicbordeaux
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Pursuing the same aim with the same system

Post by nicbordeaux »

In spite of having failed to identify and properly name a drop in CoM in my last post , here is a vid of three pretty basic attempts at a system which aims to capitalize on the "offset DP arm" . This is not, although there is enough energy in the properly built contraption to achieve what I want, the best of systems. So, more to come. Any comments, if reasonably polite, are very welcome !

https://youtu.be/MwEMpERD_jo

The previous thread was http://www.besslerwheel.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=7025

Edit : As shown in a few previous vids, a jerk to the pendulum arm at the right moment will cause the Wheel to do a full turn. This is because of putting energy into the Wheel, and/or changing the relative positions of arm and OB weight on Wheel shortens the distance the wheel/weight has to travel.

Also, rotating the arm through a few degrees prior to release also sets the Wheel spinning. The energy from the loss of height when the pendulum arm travels through those few degrees is transfered to the wheel.

The horizontally rotating pendulum when extended to either side provides this slightly off vertical release position. Yes, there is input from the operator to set that arm in motion, and I think it is not a major issue, just a mechanical one. As the pendulum shifts from full lateral extension and pressure on the arm to frontal force on the arm, it is also exactly like a "mass dump" . IMMO.
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re: Pursuing the same aim with the same system

Post by rlortie »

Hello Nick!

Not good at drawing and posting pictures so will ask you to open this in a second tab: http://www.besslerwheel.com/images/Merseburg_wheel1.jpg

Take note of the pendulum pivot (#8) as barely shown in the far left and clearly seen in the center image. This shows the pendulum shaft being allowed to slide off center as the pendulum meets its apogee. Bessler does not show this in the far right depiction, could there be a reason? Is this one of those hidden clues for the discerning?

Also consider as this change of pivot also effects the dampener weights, placing one side of the pendulum, shaft and bob out of balance.

As I see it, as the pendulum rises, sliding the dampener weight outward will tend to increase the bob apogee with each cycle?

Is this not similar to what you are trying to achieve?

Ralph
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Post by nicbordeaux »

Hello Ralph, glad we're both still kicking that can of worms :-)

There are other variants of my gizmo built over the years, and when I applied the rotary system to the "pendulum Wheel", a thought immediately crossed my mind : cross arms and hollow weights. Hope that makes sense.
Nick
Last edited by nicbordeaux on Thu Apr 06, 2017 6:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Grimer »

Is that you in the vids, Nick?
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Post by nicbordeaux »

'Tis indeed. Summat wrong with me haircut ? ;-)
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Re: re: Pursuing the same aim with the same system

Post by nicbordeaux »

Ralph,

I agree with your analysis of that set up, position of application of force changes, allowing for more travel. Also because during the pendulum slide, there is a moment of "no action" or "no reaction" then a reapplication with a jerk or jolt. How about the pendulum is 4 full cycles per revolution ? The pendulum looks like the prime mover even though it seems way too small.

And yes, that would be the efect I'm seeing in the pendulum Wheel with a lateral arm which swings horizontal, or rises and sinks vertically to an onboard or outboard slider mass.

Next setup is a cross arm extending each side of pendulum arm, with drilled weights which are only connected alternately to the double arm, and for part of the stroke. If those weights were linked, which is maybe possible whilst still producing the desired "offsets" , maybe that would be something like "weights linked and working in pairs" .

That is all pretty tenuous, because I admit to being pretty clueless at reading plans, being more comfortable with machinery I can see working and have a feel for, from hands-on experience. No doubt you remeber that stupid machine made from a chopped bicycle, with a horizontally mounted OB Wheel on one end ? This is the same system, more compact, and working in planes which are better suited to allowing (maybe) a reset.

rlortie wrote:Hello Nick!

Not good at drawing and posting pictures so will ask you to open this in a second tab: http://www.besslerwheel.com/images/Merseburg_wheel1.jpg

Take note of the pendulum pivot (#8) as barely shown in the far left and clearly seen in the center image. This shows the pendulum shaft being allowed to slide off center as the pendulum meets its apogee. Bessler does not show this in the far right depiction, could there be a reason? Is this one of those hidden clues for the discerning?

Also consider as this change of pivot also effects the dampener weights, placing one side of the pendulum, shaft and bob out of balance.

As I see it, as the pendulum rises, sliding the dampener weight outward will tend to increase the bob apogee with each cycle?

Is this not similar to what you are trying to achieve?

Ralph
If you think you have an overunity device, think again, there is no such thing. You might just possibly have an unexpectedly efficient device. In which case you will be abducted by MIB and threatened by aliens.
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re: Pursuing the same aim with the same system

Post by rlortie »

Nick,

In giving this more thought, I could not help but notice how small the bob is in comparison to the dampener weights. It only needs the mass to return the pendulum cross bar past horizontal allowing the cross bar to slide back and past center. Remember the dampener weights are balanced, all you are doing is moving the slider on the fulcrum.

I may be in error, but to my thinking, the sliding in and out of the dampener weights will add not only the "jerk" but adds leverage, AM, kinetic and inertia. The bob changes asymmetrical paths, making for a longer stroke, while the dampener force tends to push it upward.

The upward or ascending weight (dampener) carries with it inertial mass that once in motion tends to stay in motion, so it is not like you are lifting dead weight.

Ralph
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Post by nicbordeaux »

100 % agreed, the tricky (or nigh impossible save years of trying in the dark) part is getting the different component's proportions right in terms of both size and weight. Are you going to try a build , or testbed ?
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re: Pursuing the same aim with the same system

Post by rlortie »

I may play with a build in the near future, unfortunately my health has put me way behind in priorities. I have not worked on my own molecular mass design in 1-1/2 years.

Having been a member here since 2005, researching my own ideas and a great number of designs through my 'Arrache' entity, I have pretty much gave up on pendulums and solid weights.

Ralph
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re: Pursuing the same aim with the same system

Post by agor95 »

Sorry to here your health is getting in the way.

I have only two pendulum designs.

The second pendulum uses a spring metal rod to the weight.

The pivot attachment gives the pendulum a kick at the top
of each swing.

The energy for this kick is captured at the bottom of the swing.

image later

Regards
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