The secret behind Bessler's wheel...

[raj]

While my daily continuous doodling drawings/designs of possible PM wheel concepts continues, I think I have just, in the last hour, found the secret behind Bessler's wheel, as shown in his drawing below.

Raj

[Sam Peppiatt]

Good raj! I wish some body would find it--------------------Sam

[raj]

The reason I keep posting all new PM ideas that comes to mind is simply because I do not have anybody, PM enthusiast close by, whom I can share my thoughts.

All I hope by being open with my ideas on this forum is a 100 % + non-expected " WOW" reply from you.

I know that day will NEVER come.

Raj

[raj]

Bessler's wheel I am thinking about for the past hours, seems simple in design.

We have a wheel connected to pendulum/s at rest.
When the wheel is given the initial push or pull, the wheel begin its rotation, while activating the pendulum/s, which force one weight to move up on one side and another weight to move down on the opposite side.

There seems to have a synchronised wheel and pendulum motions, as used in old grand-father's clock.

Raj

[ME]

...I think I have just, in the last hour, found the secret behind Bessler's wheel, as shown in his drawing below.

WOW :-)

When the wheel is given the initial push or pull, the wheel...

...was somehow already balanced.
Synchronization, and resonance are interesting but (likely) still needs some continuous influx of energy to keep its motion from draining away due to friction...

Bessler started with an unidirectional wheel which was likely already out of balance in some preferred direction when at rest.
Perhaps two uni's make a bi-directional, but then PM already occurred.
I just guess an uni-directional will show a certain "obviousness" not necessarily present in a bi-directional... making the inventor's life a bit easier.
Right?

[raj]

As usual, I shall open up my full idea for all to see here, only after I make relevant drawing/s of same, with explanations.

Raj

[raj]

As usual, I lay bare my PM wheel concept for you, on this forum...

1 is a flywheel on axle 2 between stands 4.
3 are smaller wheels extended part of 1 on axle 2 on either outer sides of stand 4.
5 are pendulums with bobs 6, on pivots 7, on outer sides of stands 4 above axle 2.
8 are levers on movable connection with diametrically opposite pivots 9 on either smaller wheels 3.

Now when the flywheel 1 is given a push or pull, one of pendulums 5 with bobs 6 is expected to swing downwards towards the center and the other pendulum 5 and bob 6 will swing upwards further away from the center, making asymmetry of bobs positions, and change Moment of Inertia and torque which is expected to reinforce the rotation of the flywheel.

This concept is expected to be bidirectional.

Raj

[raj]

Question to answer!!!

After an initial pushed, a balanced flywheel rotates, with two swinging pendulums with heavy bobs/weights acting on it, one weight moving downwards towards the center and one weight moving upwards away from the center, by SAME heights, exchanging their positions alternately, every 180 degree.

Question:
Will the angular momentum of the rotating flywheel be maintained in this hypothetical situation?

Raj

[daanopperman]

Hi raj ,

To answer your question , no it will not maintain angular momentum , it can only happen if energy is added to the system .

Your drawing is the same as Bessler's , he just took a simple route , crank , pushrod , pendulum and pivot .

But what will happen if you let the pendulum just fall , and fall , and fall until it stops .
If the bob has mass 1 onz , and use it in the same manner as a Milkowitch pendulum , with every fall , the 4 onz mass can be raised a small fraction of the 4 quarters , as the pendulum swing from side to side , in a 1/4 or a segment of the wheel .

[Ed]

Raj, I don't believe the linkages in this will behave the way you are thinking. The pendulums won't drive the wheel. In the animation, the wheel is driving the pendulums so you can get an idea of what I mean.

[raj]

Ed, thank you for your animation.

In your animation, you must have provided some force to the wheel, in your initial push.

1. How much initial force did you provide?
2. How soon the initial force will be consumed and the wheel stops?
3. What other forces are acting in your animation?
4. What about Moment of Inertia involved, if any?
5. Is the angular momentum decreasing soon after the start of the animation?

Raj

[Ed]

Hi Raj,

to answer your questions:
1. none
2. the wheel didn't move
3. I manually activated 60 lb-in of torque to get the wheel moving
4. & 5. I wasn't tracking at the time

I have two other animations, in which I’d have to find a way to trim the size of before I could post. The third one shows how you can offset the linkages of the pendulums to actually get the wheel moving but the whole thing will still come to a stop and want to reverse, etc. etc.

Basically, if you want the wheel to move, at all, via the pendulums, you need to reconnect their linkages to 12 and 6, instead of 9 and 3.

[raj]

Hi Ed,
Your animation looks GOOD.
What I would expect to happen is this:
1. The wheel and the pendulums will be at rest and will not move before any force is applied.
2. When force is applied, this force will act equally on both the wheel and the pendulums, making the wheel rotate and the pendulums swing, one upwards providing negative torque and the other, downwards providing positive torque.
3. After the initial force is applied, the wheel is expected to come to a stop slowly, with the rpm coming slowly to zero, and that should be noticeable in your animation.
The thing to remember in this concept is that we have three separate motions activated by one single push/pull force, the rotating motion of the wheel and the two swinging motion of the two pendulums. But all three motions are in unison holding hands, helping one another. The wheel and each of the pendulums have separate momentum, and if any one slows down, the other two might just give a pulling helping hand to continue going.
The vital question is which of the three motions will stop first?
4. It would be a miracle, if the wheel shows no sign of stopping. That would only happen when the combined swinging motion of the pendulums, acting on the wheel, is somehow providing additional MoI and adding angular momentum to the wheel for continued rotation.
If that happens, it will be the day we are all dreaming of ... A miracle.

[Fcdriver]

It's the amount of force the pendulum can deliver to the wheel, while being so close to center. If the two points of loading the pendulum, and the returning force push are the same from center, you have gained nothing. It would be very difficult to try to get a gain from a pendulum

[raj]

Bessler has tried to use pendulums in his drawings/concepts more than once:
like in MT76.

In my drawing/concept and in Ed's animation there is visible asymmetry of the two pendulums/bobs motions from the center, during any point in flywheel rotation.

Does this asymmetry help or hinder with Angular Momentum and MoI in the Flywheel?

N.B: We are using a FLYWHEEL that can store energy and release energy whenever possible.

Raj