The secret behind Bessler's wheel...

[Fcdriver]

Trying to tune or set the two opposing pendulums, set in the manner of the drawings, being offset above the pivot, is a learning experience!
I highly recommend doing it!

[daanopperman]

Hi ME ,

If the wheel is connected to the pendulum , how can you doubt the fact that the 2 MUST have the same frequency , unless there is some slip in the connection . They're coupled by the crankpin and connecting rod .

While the wheel is in motion , depending where the crankpin is at the apex of the pendulum , ( 3 or 9 ) the energy transfered to the wheel from the pendulum , will drive the wheel axel support into the ground on one side of the pendulum swing , and lift the axel support off the ground on the other extreme of swing , just as described in one of the demonstrations where the wheel support was lifted to expose a unpainted portion of it .

By adding energy to a swinging pendulum , you can only alter it's amplitude , not it's frequency .

Connecting a pendulum to the wheel with a crankpin , the amplitude is forever pinned , so by adding energy to the wheel , the pendulum WANTS to increase in amplitude , but the returning / oscillating crankpin prohibit this , what becomes of the energy added to the pendulum ? .

[raj]

The wheel goes against KNOWN science.
The wheel MAY be found, only if we ignore known science.

Raj

[ovyyus]

The wheel goes against KNOWN science.

If you don't KNOW how the wheel worked then you can't KNOW what it goes against. Why make stuff up?

[raj]

You are free to interprete my statements in any way that suit you.

Sciencists do not stop harping that the laws of thermodynamics cannot be broken with the first law saying that energy can neither be created nor destroyed.

Since a PMM wheel is not going to use any external energy, it has to Create its own energy.

Therefore it's obvious statement that the wheel goes against known science.

[ovyyus]

But you still don't know what was inside Bessler's wheel so you still can't know what energy source made it turn. What happens to your belief in PM if Bessler's wheel didn't go against known science?

[preoccupied]

I think it's pretty ridiculous to say that in order to use gravity that you need to space warping technology. That is so science fiction stupid IMO. The actual way like what Bessler would have used is mechanical. You either have a way to change force mechanically and have leverage on the rotation, or you have a delay where force builds up and then overcomes counter force by cascading.

If there were vertical strings on each weights that followed it along its horizontal path by sliding, those vertical strings could have counter weights that fall and lift it and then drop it. This means that you remove the small counter force of that opposing lever and turn it into a driving force right away by dropping it from a more vertical angle while the pendulum pushes either left or right some in the direction of the wheel with the other lever.

Gravity is built up force from movement I think. So its pent up positional force by being in position. It's also other planets positions. Even if you don't think so, I do, that you could effect positions of planets extremely far away or even attract galaxies to your galaxy by using gravity for work beyond its usual path. I think it's all connected and that all of those connections are energies. Our planets energy is shared with the energy of the entire nearest galaxy and that galaxy will rush towards us some maybe if that's right when we use gravity for energy.

I think it's pretty obvious that perpetual motion using gravity is possible but that we are not being clever enough to know how as the local human being population that we are on our planet. The use of the machine could destroy the planet. The energy taken from gravity would change the behavior of our gravity. Maybe we would become lighter or heavier, crushing us or something. Even if the gravity changes and we don't think it's dangerous, it might tilt the planet slightly and throw us off course and into another planet. Stealing gravity might attract asteroids or other planets. What if stealing a small amount of gravity somehow attracts other planets that are super far away, then Johann Bessler might have drawn a large asteroid to hit us or a distant future collision. What if stealing gravity in a galaxy attracts another entire galaxy to collide with our galaxy? That is actually happening. Gregory says that the energy comes from somewhere by nature. Beware the doom of this pursuit. PPM Gravity should not be used to power your electrical needs because it has got an unknown danger on such an important part of life already. I think everything that I mentioned might be true and that it will be basic astronomy physics in the future, when then we would regulate that nobody use gravity for work as a perpetual motion machine if the doom true.

You assume that gravity is a source of energy, but it is not even a force in the classical sense. There is no way to steal energy from gravity, that would imply stealing mass from the planet itself in some form (or stealing energy from the vacuum of space). Even if there would be a way to make use of gravity, it is surely not by overbalancing or some kind of clever lifting. When PMM seekers try to come up with a clever methode to lift weights with the help of gravity, they are essentially try to force gravity to break its own rules, to beat itself. It simply can't do that.

There is a simple experiment to test what gravity can and cannot do. One just need a rope or fishing line, house keys and ductape. Tie one end of the rope to the keys with the ductape attach the other end to the ceiling, there is a simple pendulum. Pull it with the keys to get into contact with a wall or some object, then release it. It will swing back to the starting point at maximum, but never above. With this simple experiment one can test certain properties of the gravitational field. And the most important property of the field is that whether it produces an uneven amount of force/work via some direction or loop. But this is not the case. In any closed loop (or symmetrical path) a point mass can travel through the field produces a net zero sum of forces, or exactly zero work done on the mass, regardless of the shape of the path and the physical mechanism used. The experiment with the simple pendulum perfectly illustrates this. It is the property of the gravity field itself, and it can’t be changed by using a different trajectory or another type of mechanism. So, trying to use gravity against itself is not useful at the least, the best it can do is to balace itself out like in the case of an equal lenght/mass seesaw...

Basically, there are only two ways to defeat gravity.
1. Using some kind of space warp (or shield) technology to manipulate the strength or geometry of the field. But that’s not something to be easily done in someones’s basement.
2. To use some external force to help lift some weights for example. But in this case the resultant machine will be not a gravity wheel, but instead it will be „whatever external force� wheel, and gravity can be simply scrapped from its working principles.
After this, the conclusion might be that:
Bessler used some kind of external force (whatever that means really) to power his wheels.
Or he executed one of the most genius hoaxes of his time in multiple occasions.

[raj]

Known science becomes laws.
Unknown science are impossible.
Scientific logics???

[ME]

Hi ME ,

If the wheel is connected to the pendulum , how can you doubt the fact that the 2 MUST have the same frequency , unless there is some slip in the connection . They're coupled by the crankpin and connecting rod .

True.
I read your text like the pendulum dictating the frequency...
But they are indeed coupled and will have the same frequency as a combined effort.

Connecting a pendulum to the wheel with a crankpin , the amplitude is forever pinned , so by adding energy to the wheel , the pendulum WANTS to increase in amplitude , but the returning / oscillating crankpin prohibit this , what becomes of the energy added to the pendulum ? .

That's an invalid question as there's one wheel-pendulum-system with a fixed amplitude of the pendulum: there's nothing to want.
Adding energy to the wheel increases its velocity and thus rotational frequency or RPM... and so goes the pendulum.

[preoccupied]

The angles facing the inner wheel can be manipulated. When it's turning clockwise then it can lift a weight on the right and drop a weight on the left to change the angle of the lever pushing on the inner wheel. The perpetual motion machine would then be able to lift and drop a weight with minimal effort but add a lot of force to the inner wheel in exchange. This reminds me of an idea that I kept insisting that I could give my mother for a house if she let me design a house. I told her that she could have a hand crank elevator using counter weights. It's a joke, to be fancy. Like old fashion mansion jokes.

[ME]

Science - Latin: scientia, meaning “knowledge�.

There's a huge difference between Science and Scientism...
The first tries to gain knowledge from the surroundings (one could say: structured curiosity), the second tries to impose fixed knowledge on reality - like any manipulative/power hungry religion it's close to madness.
Please don't mix them up.

There's a link in my signature - I think it nicely sums up various methods (inner religions are never a problem).
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Descripti ... _knowledge

Even when you reduce "Science" as simply following "Scientific doctrine" like the "Scientific Method" then you can see that it still contains the cycle of iterative self-improvement.

Perhaps the Laws of Thermodynamics are indeed too strict and rely too heavy on circular perfections of Mathematics where Perpetual Motion may be the practical workaround... But nevertheless (whether you use Science/physics/mathematics or not) failures of all perpetual designs can still be explained by those annoying Thermodynamic consequences...

So yes: "The wheel goes against (currently) KNOWN science".

[raj]

Thank you Marchello!

Raj

[raj]

Preoccupied, you have just touch a very vital point that I have tried to explain all along this thread.

So let me repeat myself for the nth time:
We have a mechanical system connecting a wheel with a pendulum or two pendulums, in such a way that they move in unison, the wheel rotates and the pendulum/s swing.
The wheel apply some force to help the upwards swing of the pendulum/s and in return, the pendulums apply some force on their downwards swing to help wheel continue rotating on the descending side.

Now, if the forces applied by the wheel and the pendulum/s are equal, everything WILL STOP.

But if we can, by some special mechanical arrangement, make the forces unequal, then we will have, what I am calling asymmetry of force,motion and torque which will affect angular momentum and MoI.

I do not understand why some of you are taking my proposal as mere nonsense.

It may be non-scientific reasoning but certainly, not non-sense.

Raj

[ovyyus]

So yes: "The wheel goes against (currently) KNOWN science"

How can this be true when no one knows what was inside Bessler's wheel? Bessler's secret energy source might be well known to science.

[ME]

Hindsight sucks...
Perhaps it's false indeed... but that's harder to proof I guess.
First we need something that works.

Pre-knowledge is indeed the question:
Science defines perpetual motion as impossible... When we assume Bessler's wheel could potentially rotate forever and do some stuff, we also assume it's a perpetual motion machine.
Which assumption can be proven false...and how?