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Into the Vanishing Point..

 
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MrVibrating
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 25, 2017 12:07 am    Post subject: re: Into the Vanishing Point.. Reply with quote Report Post to Admin

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 25, 2017 12:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Report Post to Admin

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 25, 2017 12:57 am    Post subject: re: Into the Vanishing Point.. Reply with quote Report Post to Admin

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daanopperman
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 01, 2017 11:09 am    Post subject: re: Into the Vanishing Point.. Reply with quote Report Post to Admin

Hi Mr V ,

I am sorry to see your topic idle , to kick start you again ,

RKE = 1/2 MOE x Angular velocity squared .

Linear KE = 1/2 MV squared

I think any of the equations where W : R or V is squared will yield excess .
W is angular velocity , for I have not the fancy W as in the equation .

Daan .


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MrVibrating






PostPosted: Thu Aug 03, 2017 11:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Report Post to Admin

Cheers Dann, although i'm now done with this thread, and carrying over whatever i've learned from it to my next concept..

I'll start another thread on the next concept when i get around to it... but my basic idea for now is to use gravity to re-accelerate a falling mass which has been decelerated by increasing its radius while falling. This creates momentum and energy from gravity, and also provides a compelling reason why Bessler's wheels were vertical - something lacking in my previous concepts.

The symmetry break here, if it's valid, will be between GPE and inertial (CF / CP) PE - the former being a linear function of height, the latter a squaring function of radius...

...for example, a 1 meter change in radius of an orbiting mass could correspond to anything from zero to 1 meter change in height, depending on whether it slides out horizontally or vertically, or anywhere in between.

However that same 1 meter change in radius could also correspond to a doubling of MoI (ie. if the previous radius was 1 meter), or a 10% rise in MoI (if the previous radius was 10 meters), etc. etc. Remembering that doubling the radius halves the RKE, and similarly raising it tenfold cuts RKE by 90% etc., while the GPE change remains a fixed function of total change in height regardless of radius, it appears that the two energies may be thermodynamically decoupled, hence presenting the basis for an asymmetry... maybe.

As i say tho, i'll start a new thread for this when i'm ready...


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daanopperman






PostPosted: Sun Aug 06, 2017 1:03 pm    Post subject: re: Into the Vanishing Point.. Reply with quote Report Post to Admin

Hi Mr V ,

That is cool .

I asked anyone's input in another topic to show the effect of a pendulum on a wheel where the wheel is driving the pendulum at a increasing velocity , but no one came to the party .

In a wheel connected to a pendulum , at every 180 degree of rotation , you have 2 masses going in different directions . If this change of direction is in the correct orientation , you have the pendulum at it's apex , and the return down swing happens at the mercy of gravity .

If the mass of the pend. Bob is at the same radius and of the same mass as the wheel rim mass and radius , the pendulum will bring the wheel to a abrubt halt .
In a balanced wheel , the wheel will start to rotate freely immediately after the disruption , as the pendulum will fall under gravity and impart it's pe to the wheel .

It is this sudden stop of the wheel , where 2 masses give up all of of their RKE to a 3rd mass
where Radius is sqrd in the equation , that is what I am after .

If Bessler have indeed used a pendulump to drive his wheels , he would have had them and the connection hidden inside the wheel .

Daan .


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MrVibrating






PostPosted: Tue Aug 08, 2017 9:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Report Post to Admin

If i follow correctly, then the only point at which the 2 masses (wheel + pend.) can transfer all of their KE to a third mass is when the pend. strikes bottom dead center.

Whereas, at its apex, when both masses momentarily halt, all the system KE has converted to GPE.

What i do find interesting about this system is that, provided both wheel and pend. have identical MoI, every alternate time the pend. passes BDC, both masses are traveling in the same direction, with equal momentum, at the same location and time.

If the motion is initially imparted by a torque applied between them, then at these junctures we have a situation in which both momentum and counter momentum are sharing location and vector, in contradiction of Newton's 3rd law - normally, a momentum and its counter momentum must be on equal and opposite vectors, their distance increasing.

Not that i've managed to make anything more useful from this observation, however i remain convinced that an effective N3 violation is the only way, mathematically, to introduce excess energy from anywhere...


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raj
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 08, 2017 10:32 am    Post subject: re: Into the Vanishing Point.. Reply with quote Report Post to Admin

I am delighted of the ongoing debate on the use of pendulums with wheels, on several current threads.

It's very healthy debate for me, with my current topic in mind.

Raj.



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daanopperman






PostPosted: Fri Aug 11, 2017 7:06 pm    Post subject: re: Into the Vanishing Point.. Report Post to Admin

Mr V

If a overbalanced wheel drives a pendulum , bdc will not be the pendulum's max velocity .
If the crank throw limits the free swing of the pendulum , it will try to reverse the pendulum while the pendulum needs to expend it's pe . The pendulum's amplitude in this case will not be desided by the velocity of the bob , but by the stroke of the crank only . This should happen when the overbalance weight reaches bdc .


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