Generating more meaningful debate

[daanopperman]

@ All ,

Take the same ball on the bungi cord , but have it on a pivot so that the ball be able to rotate
without constraints . Shoot/ throw the ball towards the rim , it should not alter the rotational velocity of the roundabout , for it is not fixed to it , and already have it's own rotational velocity , the same as the roundabout .
What will happen is it will tend to change the pivot point location of the roundabout , or anything the pivot is fixed to . It will return at a retarded angular position , and because it has it's own rotational velocity ( exactly that of the roundabout ) it will not effect the rotational velocity of the roundabout , and try to move the pivot position in the reversed orientations .
If you weren't fixed to the roundabout holding onto the cord , then there would be no slowing of the roundabout .
Just some thoughts .

[Sam Peppiatt]

Hi agor95!!

Maybe it will work-------------thanks for tolerating my ignorance of the operation of it. I'm sort of catching on-----------------

One great thing about CF, it's easy to get 1000 times the force of gravity!

Sam

[agor95]

You know MT124 has always looked like an alternative to a ratchet.

I have presented it before in a mono-directional illustration.

However to used that in my current version.
We would need a pendulum like component hanging from the hub.

[AB Hammer]

agor95

You sure you didn't mean MT123 ? MT124 looking more like a floating track.

[agor95]

@AB

Thanks for asking

http://www.orffyre.com/MTHard124.jpg

http://www.besslerwheel.com/forum/viewt ... ight=mt124

http://www.besslerwheel.com/forum/viewt ... sc&start=0

I can see me having to go away for six months and upgrade my site with a scissor jack [leaf spring / bungee rope] and the pendulum prime mover.

Illustrations are worth a thousand pages of text.

This MT124 shows a track that converts momentum into height.

Treat this as a clue not an implementation.

However it would be good to study the dynamics.

A device like my illustrations need a little nudge with a guiding track to assist in increasing bias. The first bias is inertia based the second is taking a little rotational inertia to supplement the existing linear movement.

Then lock the Baton in its new position and not slip back.

P.S. anyone interested in MT124 please post on any of the treads above.

[Robinhood46]

Hello all,
This is my first post on an over unité forum.
I as like most of us have spent many years on and off trying to find a solution. I have never managed to find it ( which is obvious because it would have been known),. My last attempte was rather promising and I have never seen another version of this type. I would like to share my thoughts with the hope that someone will maybe just fund the missing part.
A large wheel or more like a hoop or rim with a wheel sitting on the inside of the rim without any attachements. the slightest latteral movement of the inner wheel makes the outer wheel rotate which rotates the inner wheel at the same time. I have had very promising results from a few different methods but I am not financiely able to fund my project as I would like.
I think that the possibility of allowing the wieghts to walk around the inner wheel is worth some thought, for exemple 9 slots for 4 wieghts with each wieght moving back one slot with each rotation. Would this then be no longer a closed circuit as such ? I have also learnt that the biggest mistake that I have probably been making is in trying to gain a substantial overbalance, the tiniest of overbalance is all that is needed for the wheel to turn. For the internal wheel to tilt to one side we need very little unbalance within the inner wheel and the unbalance is increased by it's tilting (unbalance of the combination of the 2 wheels).
The inner wheel walks up the outer wheels rim like a treadmill.
I myself would have shown a working model publicly so as to be sure that nobody not even myself could patent it. The world is in much need of this and gravity is not somethong that one can have a say in who can and who can't use it.
I am fully aware of the arguments in favour of PM being impossible, I find some of them very plausable. I do find however that they only prove the improbability of PM and not impossibility. Somewhere in our history we changed from one to t'other.
I am also well aware that two minds are better than one, more hands make light work, etc etc.
Please stop trying to find the solution single handedly the chances of it happening are about as much as winning the lotterie without actually having a ticket.
Together we CAN do it.

[Robinhood46]

Little correction
"fund the missing part" should actaully be FIND missing part.

[Sam Peppiatt]

Hi Robinhood46,

How much experimenting have you done or for how long?

I was thinking about your idea-----------but to get the big wheel to turn, you have to get the the small wheel(s) to turn so you don't gain much by putting one inside of the other, seams to me.

You still have to figure out how to make the small wheel turn, if you forgive me for saying so. But I don't know everything, so keep trying---------------------

Sam

Welcome to the forum.

[Robinhood46]

Hi sam,
35 years on and off.
As my wife would say "that infernal machine of yours"
I have made many models, being more of of a practical man, and my latest attempts with the inner wheel sitting on outer wheels rim i find very promising.
The inner wheel does not need to be rotated, just tilted,moving a mass laterally is less work than lifting it. With an outer wheel (rim) of 2M exterior and 1.66 interior and inner wheel ( which isn't really a wheel as such) of 1.32 M the tilting of inner wheel gives 10 CM difference from rim to weights between one side and the other. The weight of inner wheel is added to difference because of the tilt and the fact that it isn't round so it sits on rim at about 5 and 6 o'clock.
I find rather surprising the ease with which the inner wheel can be tilted. Once the inner wheel has tilted the unbalance causes the outer wheel to rotate which also rotates inner wheel.
Hence the appearance of it walking up the outer rim like a treadmill. Each tilt is like stepping from 6 to 5 o'clock and at the same time creating a significant unbalance for the whole picture.
If somebody has already taken this approach to every extreme and can ever help me with either perfectioning it or accepting that it is yet another nohoper it would be much appreciated.
Robin

[Sam Peppiatt]

Robinhood46,

I'm having trouble visualizing it--------I'm afraid I'm of no help. Experimenting is the best way, try to experiment with just parts of it.

You say the inner wheel isn't round, that really throws me,

Sam

[Robinhood46]

The inner wheel is 24 sided with 8 feet evenly placed.
Very much like a wheel although not exactly.
I'm trying to post some photos but without success,i'll try modifying the format and post them later.

[sleepy]

Hey Robinhood46,
One of our esteemed members,"Raj",has had many designs utilizing the wheel in a wheel scenario.Maybe he has some useful insight.

[Robinhood46]

hopefully this time[/img]

[Robinhood46]

at last,

[Sam Peppiatt]

Robinhood46,

I have an idea; you'll think I'm goofy. What if the inner surface of the large wheel was like scallops? So, when the smaller wheel tips, it would kind of roll up and over a scallop and maybe keep going-----------------

I doubt it, Sam