TO PATENT OR---------

[Ed]

ME, what you seem to be forgetting is that once the real solution is disclosed, then people that sat on an idea (whether they had anything or not) will now know how to get an idea to work. Now, who is to say they didn't do it themselves, especially since they have a patent? Most patents have a bit at the end saying something to the effect "it's obvious by this instant invention that there are other ways to implement the concept".

Those "other ways" will be how the patent is defended. I hope I'm wrong about this, but you know human nature...

-Ed

[jim_mich]

If your idea works and others don't, then that is a very BIG factor.

There seems to be a lot of misconceptions concerning patents. One seems to be that someone (Big corporation?) can make a small change, get a patent, and build your invention with that change.

Suppose you are the first to invent a donkey cart, which you claim consists of a platform on rotatable wheels pulled by a harness around an animals shoulders. You also claim possible sidewalls on the cart, and list possible animals such as donkeys, horses, and dogs to pull your cart. You list a possible seat and ropes from the animal to the driver so the driver can guide the animal.

What can the big corporation do? Maybe your drawings show only two wheels but you claim "wheels" without limiting the quantity. The corporation can't change the number of wheels to four because your patent would still cover it.

The Big Corp. can add features but will still need your permission to build a cart. Maybe they add a front axle that turns to follow the animal. This is called an improvement and they get a patent. Their patent infringes your patent. And if you build a cart with a turnable front axle then you will infringe their patent. Neither of you can build a cart with a turnable front axle without the consent of the other.

You can still build your original two-wheeled cart or a multi-wheeled cart without their turnable front axle, but they can't build anything without your consent. So you negotiate an agreement. You have the strong hand. You should be able to get a very good deal from the Big Corp. Go into the negotiations with an attitude that you want both to win, not an attitude of defiance. You will want a royalty on each cart they build and the right to freely use their turnable axle in cart that you build. Don't make enemies, but do make them respect you.

[Clarkie]

Jim,
You are talking a lot of sense.

When it comes to patenting a working wheel it will need a full search and some very careful wording because there will be prior art to get round but this is the patent game, its how it works.

The big problem for an American is the US government reserves the right to confiscate any patent considered in the national interest right up until grant, thatÂ’s normally 3 years.

Here in the UK we have a 6-week window, after that they can get stuffed.

You should consider filing simultaneously in as many countries as possible so when the US government wake up its too late in the other countries.

Also when you file you make no mention of PM, its an oddity, a kids toy, a rotating device to entertain, I think you call it a Rube Goldberg machine in the US, anything but what it really is, put them off the sent for as long as possible.

Pete.

[james kelly]

Hey! you fellows are great! I have studied business law ,but it seems that many changes have been made sinced I studied. I do not concider myself really old. My grandfather was born in 1854. his daughter, my mother, died early. at 87 riding a horse in 1997.
I really appreciate all of the input from you. thank you pete and jim. jim kelly

[jim_mich]

See my post http://www.besslerwheel.com/forum/viewt ... 5508#15508 concerning patents as it is relevent here also.

[Fletcher]

Speaking of donkey's & carts, isn't one ahead of the other at this time ?

[rlortie]

Yes Fletch, it is. But then you must remember that the best laid plans of mice and men must be studied before building the better mouse trap.

I tend to agree full heartfelt with Jim_Mich that one must plan ahead on gaining protection. To me this is as important as solving the mechanism that one wishes to protect.

If I were to announce that I had solved the mystery and the fat lady was singing. How long would it take for someone to be knocking on my door or breaking into my shop. If I were to make such an announcement, my wheel would be hidden under wraps in a far away third party warehouse registered under an alias name.

IMO I believe that a short talk with a good and reputable patent attorney would help eluviate the suppression law. If he felt that he could get around it, he would likely consider excepting all or part of your application costs on a contingency basis.

Ralph

[jim_mich]

Boy Scout Motto... Be Prepared!

:))

[Fletcher]

Oh, I agree ! I am weak & couldn't resist the temptation of jim_mich's most excellent & opportune example, whether intentional or not :7)

[rlortie]

There is another alternative and that is to contact the oil companies and large power suppliers. Tell them if they do not pay you to shut up, you will shout it to the world.

Then of course it is up to them as to how they shut you up. :-)

Ralph

[ME]

I think it will look like a car accident, or a heart attack

[unstable]

HI, Why you speak about patent... anyone have discovered JB wheel secret :) ?

Ralph I think blackmail is a very dangerous solution, big company may kill you.... I agree with ME.

Claudio

[ME]

thanx, but that doesn't make me happier though.

In the seventies or so we had a person in the area who invented an engine working on water. It was bought by Shell in return of silence, and we never heard of the design anymore.

Another story: Last year there was a dutch guy Sloot who had invented a mega video compression system (a bit doubtfull, but so is a PM). He allready contacted Philips and had a few trips to America. Suddenly he had a heartattack and died. His workroom was cleaned out, and there are a lot of questions in the family and others.

Besides these problems and the Big Ego problems of being remembered, I have other considerations.
Why should we give a working design to the world. Don't get me wrong, I would give it to all you "normal" guys visiting this board (if I had a working model). But when I watch the news, look around in the neighborhood etc. I really have to think about to whom I'm giving... Some of them are really not normal ("terroristic"-minds for example).

Maybe I could help my country to have an economic advantage, but I don't think we can hold that secret for long in this small country. Compared to the rest of the world it would be like the underdog kid from school suddenly would have a giant sportscar instead of a lousy bicycle.

So there is a big change when I invent a PM, I silently will take this secret to my grave.

[Ed]

ME,

I have also thought about all those knuckleheads out there in the world (there are some in this forum too, lol) but I have come to the conclusion that if you listen to the media the whole world is populated with knuckleheads. I'm sure that (at least for now) knuckleheads are the minority. Also, knuckleheads can have normal kids, so I would also do it for the future generations.

As for using PM destructively....we already have plenty of ways we can destroy ourselves, so I'd rather we have the option to use it for good.

-Ed

[unstable]

Hi, I agree with Ovyyus when say
"No way a fundamental breakthrough in physics like this can be controlled by someone renting machines and/or selling power to the grid"

I do not think that they release any patent on a machine of this importance. This invention can change the world economy.

Claudio