Cracking Apologia "Wheel Page"

[Fletcher]

I think too.

It will suit me more.

So it's Scott that establish the private forums?

Yes, I think Scott does it if you ask him to.

Tho you could try looking at "Groups" menu, and "FAQs" for some answers.

[ovaron]

@daanopperman
In Spanish, the question mark is written openly (¿) and closed (?). A writen question starts with the upside down (open) question mark and ends with the (closed) question mark. In most languages with Latin alphabet only the closed form is used.

[Oystein]

Don't worry, I won't get that many PM's

During the first book, I use the codes to try understand why.

We don't know if Bessler was a personal Christian, though he appeared as thus, but we know he worked to unite the different "sects". This was in the aftermath of the Protestant revolution, and it was still forbidden and not taught at school, that the sun was the center of our "universe". We now don't know how bad this was! Jail, for saying where the sun is!! This was because the bible said the Earth is the center of it all. The Rosycrucian manifestos that was printed at KASSEL, said that the pope was the antichrist! This was the protestant revolution.. So why do you think they had to be anonymous? Write in code, to keep the revolution going, without being caught..

As an example, it is know that da Vinci "hated" religion opposed to logic, common sense, "matth." and science! At the same time he is said to be a catholic. If he wasn't a "catholic" he wouldn't have work. Or maybe not even a life.. da Vinci also said: "One thing is for certain: The Sun does NOT revolve around the earth!"

Here is some less known quotes from the "catholic and religious" Leonardo da Vinci. And from this, you can understand how science(internal/coded) versus Religion (external) and a tradition of dual message can exist!!

“some foolish men will accuse me of being uneducated. They will say that because I did not learn from their schoolbooks, I am unqualified to express an opinion. But I would reply that my conclusions are drawn from firsthand experience, unlike the scholars who only believe what they read in books written by others�
"These scholars strut around in a pompous way, without any thoughts of their own, equipped only with the thoughts of others, and they want to stop me from having my own thoughts. And if they despise me for being an inventor, then how much more should they be despised for not being inventors but followers and reciters of the works of others."
"And yet they want to comprehend the mind of God, talking about it as though they had already dissected it into parts. Still they remain unaware of their own bodies, of the realities of their surroundings, and even unaware of their own stupidity."
"Along with the scholars, they despise the mathematical sciences, which are the only true sources of information about those things which they claim to know so much about. Instead they talk about miracles and write about things that nobody could ever know, things that cannot be proven by any evidence in nature."


I don't think I have asked about an upside down question mark, but I showed an example of how an upside down thing, could be used to tell you to view the rest of the page upside down. What I am saying here is that printing error, or what Bessler and printers, called "The Devil in printing". The Devil that caused letters to move into wrong places...was in fact, because of the "Devilish" code applied by people not so catholic... moving a letter upside down, or cutting the tail of the number 5, or writing 24 as 42 was no mistake. It was "The Devil in print"!

Lastly I want to say that, I think many here miss understand why I show examples of possible applications of methods. I didn't have to, but I do it not to prove things, but to show how it might be used by people following a Masonic tradition. I want to gradually open up your minds to a possibility where printer and artists was mostly aware of these methods, and that even some font types was established following the same tradition. We know Bessler also was trained as a typesetter/printer. Why are there two letter in the AP that doesn't look like letters??

Z and H, look like 3 and 5

Why are there only 3 and 5 that look like letters?

Bessler could't have pulled it off if he was the only one doing this..

I found the tradition and spent a couple of years documenting it and refining it. Funny examples here, are not the documentation, it is for amusement and to wonder about...to gradually open your eyes out of Apologia Poetica..or MT...

Attached is the two letters looking like number in AP. But also in other publications.. 3 and 5 was what I found was the two basic number you need to arrive at "55", the pyramid number, a mathematical symbol for the actual secret Pyramid formula that was hidden by so many. This can be done by starting with 3 and 5, and then applying Pythagoras formula as described as the foundation of ALL masonry, by Albert Pike.

[Oystein]

I think too.

It will suit me more.

So it's Scott that establish the private forums?

Yes, I think Scott does it if you ask him to.

Tho you could try looking at "Groups" menu, and "FAQs" for some answers.

Thanks, I have sent Scott a PM/request.

[daanopperman]

Hi Øystein ,

Thank you for your reply , after reading your post for a while I thought my wife does not have to be obedient to me , really worried me , hardly closed a eye last night .

I have to say , it is easier to follow your topic than Mr V 's . 😇

[Fletcher]

I know I keep defaulting to MT. It's because it intrigues me. In there I guess he also uses the 'look at this thing upside down' pointer.

MT47 with the second upside down 47 is an example.

Also there are ones with backwards lettering such as MT13 (or visualize as mirror image (as you suggest) probably rather than strictly backwards/reverse direction).

So 24 - 42 would be suggestive of applying this technique rather than visualize this upside down perhaps.

[Silvertiger]

It is also possible that 24 (crescent and line) and 42 (cross and crescent) are symbols - 24 is Jupiter and 42 is a reflection of that, which depicts the symbol for Saturn. The 42 symbol is also a 5, depending on the style in which the symbol is drawn. But both numbers are in the same position on the wheel, suggesting CCW rotation if using the calendar as the baseline for comparison. Just a thought. :)

[Oystein]

Yes MT 13 is interesting, but MT 15 no less..

If I am right, about the doodle..attached, 5 can shapeshift to 3, so 15 is "allowed" to shapeshift to 13, so they could relate..

We know they are "the same", both obviously tampered to go "the wrong way". MT 15 would behave as MT 13 if the inner heavy pendulum was transferred to MT 15..

If we look at the wheel as clocks...why should 15 and 13 go backwards in time? This where it becomes more than interesting to go back to AP.

So yes the AP code works in parallel in MT.

[Oystein]

Hi Øystein ,

Thank you for your reply , after reading your post for a while I thought my wife does not have to be obedient to me , really worried me , hardly closed a eye last night .

I have to say , it is easier to follow your topic than Mr V 's . 😇

lol

And then you are of course not allowed to hit your slave, even if he can stand after laying for a couple of days..

[daxwc]

Fletcher:

I know I keep defaulting to MT. It's because it intrigues me. In there I guess he also uses the 'look at this thing upside down' pointer.

MT47 with the second upside down 47 is an example.

There is only the one example isn't there? Other than the numbers like 11 that are natural.

[daxwc]

Oystein, your shape shifting five seems very reasonable to me. Seems like something the society would be doing.

[daxwc]

3-4-5 triangle is very important to them. Is there any way to find a four around them?

[MrTim]

(Friedman's rule)
For a translation/decipherment/decoding to be correct, it must:

1) Be repeatable by a second party who only knows the system. They must come up with the same output as the proposer, from the same enciphered text.
2) That output must have meaning in some context.

If your proposed solution meets both of those criteria, it will be taken seriously by the cryptography community. If not, they'll be your harshest critics. Just letting you know what to expect...

[Fletcher]

Yes MT 13 is interesting, but MT 15 no less..

If I am right, about the doodle..attached, 5 can shapeshift to 3, so 15 is "allowed" to shapeshift to 13, so they could relate..

We know they are "the same", both obviously tampered to go "the wrong way". MT 15 would behave as MT 13 if the inner heavy pendulum was transferred to MT 15..

.....................

If we look at the wheel as clocks...why should 15 and 13 go backwards in time? This where it becomes more than interesting to go back to AP.

So yes the AP code works in parallel in MT.

@Oystein & dax ..

There are no other explicit examples of upside down numbering that I can recall at the moment dax. Some symmetrical lettering can be upside down. And some letters represent numbers.

But IMO I don't think upside down is his explicit meaning there. Just to look at things in an unintuitive way.

Taking 24 - 42 and combining that with the reversal of shading in the same Kassel pics is also pointing us in some direction, literally, IMO.

So to give my answer to Oystein's question about the clock analogy running backwards in time and what could it mean ? I'd say that one possibility is that JB is hinting strongly at an unintuitive answer (reversed logic) to his wheels operation.

Just about everyone has tried levers that fall and are raised again within the wheel. And we always run into the H4W conundrum that we all know too well. i.e. weights are allowed to fall further from the axle on the descending side of the axle thus creating torque when they have arrived at their destination. At the same time we try to lift weights on the ascending side closer to the axle to reduce torque on that side of the axle. We hope that this provides enough Net torque to give a positive momentum excess to the wheel after shifting has occurred. This seems a logical approach. But it never does (I'm sure ME could run the math again to show that the NET torque (turning force over distance) exactly equals the NET GPE change. Zero sum game and proof of the WEEP.

We easily recognize these wheel attempts as commonplace and nothing extraordinary to write home about (a bit like regular MT13 and 15 attempts). We also just about always use the STATIC analysis (the snap shots, as above) thinking it sufficient. Yet a self sustaining wheel would be a DYNAMIC environment. And we tend to forget about what happens when weights are falling and raising again. Yet most of us know that for any falling internal weight its torque contribution goes MIA which is extremely counter-productive. The opposite must be true for the raising of weights. There we would like its torque to temporarily disappear while transitioning but what happens is we get an even more pronounced negative torquing effect, which is also very counter-productive. A doubling up of unwanted torque trying to lift if you will. The NET result of weights moving down and out and up and in as described above is that there is no accumulated Momentum and everything zero sums as said earlier.

I think JB suggests come up with an OOB design that reverses the above logic and mechanical negative torquing effects outlined above and your stars may be correctly aligned for success.

Just as an afterthought for upside down numbers etc - here in NZ as a youngster we had a saying. If a problem seemed to hard "try turning it on its head" (i.e. look at it upside down) to find a solution. IOW's look at it a different way than you had been. Don't know if a similar saying existed in old Germany but who knows.

[daanopperman]

Hi ovaron ,

Thank you , ¿¿ didn't know that , but now we can communicate complete , would have thought someone was swearing àç38 ñø1 4ß5726 .
How do you like my coding . New age cryptology .