Cracking Apologia "Wheel Page"
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re: Cracking Apologia "Wheel Page"
Care to elaborate? What six layers and where.. are you describing?
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re: Cracking Apologia "Wheel Page"
this:
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Marchello E.
-- May the force lift you up. In case it doesn't, try something else.---
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re: Cracking Apologia "Wheel Page"
Yes, a pyramid with triangular base, I see.
In the RC watermarks such a pyramid would contain 35 grapes, and in a square based pyramid it would contain 55.
Nice! You are right, the grape figure could also have a triangular base.
I found that the basic numbers was 3 5 or 55.
Best
ØR
In the RC watermarks such a pyramid would contain 35 grapes, and in a square based pyramid it would contain 55.
Nice! You are right, the grape figure could also have a triangular base.
I found that the basic numbers was 3 5 or 55.
Best
ØR
www.orffyreuscodes.com
The truth is stranger than fiction
The truth is stranger than fiction
Re: re: Cracking Apologia "Wheel Page"
Hey Oystein .. wouldn't a 5 layer grape pyramid like the watermark depiction have 35 grapes for the triangle pyramid (not including bottom), and 45 for the square base pyramid. And be 54 grapes if you include the bottom 5th side ?Oystein wrote:Yes, a pyramid with triangular base, I see.
In the RC watermarks such a pyramid would contain 35 grapes, and in a square based pyramid it would contain 55.
Nice! You are right, the grape figure could also have a triangular base.
I found that the basic numbers was 3 5 or 55.
Best
ØR
Or have I made a mistake - hmm ... volume of the internal ?
ETA: 55
Re: re: Cracking Apologia "Wheel Page"
Most Likely Oystein, IMO.Oystein wrote:So the question in this thread really comes down to:
Did I or did I not in my private forum deduce the correct devil's number by the described methods on the AP page?
Meaning that Euclid's formula contains the answer?
Yes, no doubt?
Most likely?
Don't seems like it?
No?
Unheard of?
re: Cracking Apologia "Wheel Page"
Did I or did I not in my private forum deduce the correct devil's number by the described methods on the AP page?
Thank you Fletcher! You "never" put your guard up, and I have made an illustration for you. Including a little picture of my son, on our trip to our National Science Centre, where we built a square pyramid of 5 layers. Reaching the number 55.Most Likely Oystein, IMO.
The RC "grapes" has two possible solutions, making it a stable "construction".
Attached is an illustration of how the 3-4-5, The Pythagoras formula and the Pyramid number 55 correlates by my son "Baby Mason" Elias (1 year) building a pyramid of 5 layers as in the RC watermark.
About a possible double meaning, the grapes can also be one side of a Triangular Pyramid:
Then A Triangular pyramid from 5 layers is 1+3+6+10+15=35 (Attached)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tetrahedral_number
35 55, the numbers will appear again..and again..
Best
ØR
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The truth is stranger than fiction
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re: Cracking Apologia "Wheel Page"
As you soon will see, Bessler, the Rosicrucians, mathematicians and philosophers used something called magic numbers.
This means that a question, a task by letters or numbers never has one single purpose or solution, but a magic happening, where several criteria is met.
When I'm done babysitting I will show how Gematria could be solved by two similar methods, leaving us with two different answers, where both are correct!
We are not used to that kind of tasks today, where everything is written in "stone"... or rather books or Internet, so easily available and with answers given to you. answers, not always correct, or magic. (two things could be correct).
So the almost invisible Rosicrucian watermarks from Shakespeare, Francis Bacon and Ben Johnson and so forth..they show a triangular stack of 5 layers of "grapes", that can have two answers. (Thus the answer is magic)
Because the stack show us only two of the three dimensions, the stack can have either 35 or 55 grapes in total. This is because the base could be triangular or square. How could we know?
Both answers must be correct then.. 35 55 it is!
In the same way, Bessler incorporated this into his Chronograms..BUT he was not the first to do this! This to is a tradition not widely known. The secret is well hidden behind the first successful and obvious answer. One method must always "loose" through an intellectual fight. the second answer will stay hidden, until we open up for the fact that RC methods has several correct answers, that are all correct. I found it by learning that if I look for something in particular, I may only find that thing, OR fabricating "facts". I have learned. So I always operated with many answer to the problems and put them in a table. Only in this way the magic could be found..After many years of learning by mistakes and some success, I then stopped to define, what I wanted to find! This is being open..Only in that way the objective truth can be found.
So the Chronograms have another, second answer than what Stewart claim or JC has found. (Really no offence). A chronogram is not really magic by presenting one simple answer is it?
Will be back :-)
Best
ØR
This means that a question, a task by letters or numbers never has one single purpose or solution, but a magic happening, where several criteria is met.
When I'm done babysitting I will show how Gematria could be solved by two similar methods, leaving us with two different answers, where both are correct!
We are not used to that kind of tasks today, where everything is written in "stone"... or rather books or Internet, so easily available and with answers given to you. answers, not always correct, or magic. (two things could be correct).
So the almost invisible Rosicrucian watermarks from Shakespeare, Francis Bacon and Ben Johnson and so forth..they show a triangular stack of 5 layers of "grapes", that can have two answers. (Thus the answer is magic)
Because the stack show us only two of the three dimensions, the stack can have either 35 or 55 grapes in total. This is because the base could be triangular or square. How could we know?
Both answers must be correct then.. 35 55 it is!
In the same way, Bessler incorporated this into his Chronograms..BUT he was not the first to do this! This to is a tradition not widely known. The secret is well hidden behind the first successful and obvious answer. One method must always "loose" through an intellectual fight. the second answer will stay hidden, until we open up for the fact that RC methods has several correct answers, that are all correct. I found it by learning that if I look for something in particular, I may only find that thing, OR fabricating "facts". I have learned. So I always operated with many answer to the problems and put them in a table. Only in this way the magic could be found..After many years of learning by mistakes and some success, I then stopped to define, what I wanted to find! This is being open..Only in that way the objective truth can be found.
So the Chronograms have another, second answer than what Stewart claim or JC has found. (Really no offence). A chronogram is not really magic by presenting one simple answer is it?
Will be back :-)
Best
ØR
www.orffyreuscodes.com
The truth is stranger than fiction
The truth is stranger than fiction
re: Cracking Apologia "Wheel Page"
In Apologia Poetica Bessler writes that he corporated with a Rabbi, (a Jewish priest) and that he learned more from him than than almost any other person. (Something like that...taken from memory...).
What can be said about Jewish methods, relating to the methods I found and have showed traces of in this thread?
Gematria was and is a Jewish tradition, and nothing special. Bible verses was popular places to look for Gematria values! (Adding the value of letters and numbers).
Even my son at age 7 was today learning about Jewish traditions. He was writing the ROSH HASHANA trough looking up the alphabetic values of the letters, and picked the correct letters from a line of numbers.
How come it is so common method, even among kids, and at the same time so "far out" for me to suggest that the bible verses of AP used the method?
I think it is VERY likely that Bessler was taught this from the Jewish Rabbi. It was also used to find coinciding numbers from words or phrases in the bible.
On Wikipedia we may read:
Gematria originated as an Assyro-Babylonian-Greek system of alphanumeric code or cipher later adopted into Jewish culture that assigns numerical value to a word, name, or phrase in the belief that words or phrases with identical numerical values bear some relation to each other or bear some relation to the number itself as it may apply to Nature, a person's age, the calendar year, or the like. A single world can yield multiple values depending on the system used.
Similar systems, some of which were derived from or inspired by Hebrew gematria, have been used in other languages and cultures, i.e. Greek isopsephy, Arabic abjad numerals, and English gematria.
A well-known example of Hebrew gematria is the word chai ("alive"), which is composed of two letters that (using the assignments in the Mispar gadol table shown below) add up to 18. This has made 18 a "lucky number" among the Jewish people. Gifts of money in multiples of 18 are very popular.
Best
ØR
What can be said about Jewish methods, relating to the methods I found and have showed traces of in this thread?
Gematria was and is a Jewish tradition, and nothing special. Bible verses was popular places to look for Gematria values! (Adding the value of letters and numbers).
Even my son at age 7 was today learning about Jewish traditions. He was writing the ROSH HASHANA trough looking up the alphabetic values of the letters, and picked the correct letters from a line of numbers.
How come it is so common method, even among kids, and at the same time so "far out" for me to suggest that the bible verses of AP used the method?
I think it is VERY likely that Bessler was taught this from the Jewish Rabbi. It was also used to find coinciding numbers from words or phrases in the bible.
On Wikipedia we may read:
Gematria originated as an Assyro-Babylonian-Greek system of alphanumeric code or cipher later adopted into Jewish culture that assigns numerical value to a word, name, or phrase in the belief that words or phrases with identical numerical values bear some relation to each other or bear some relation to the number itself as it may apply to Nature, a person's age, the calendar year, or the like. A single world can yield multiple values depending on the system used.
Similar systems, some of which were derived from or inspired by Hebrew gematria, have been used in other languages and cultures, i.e. Greek isopsephy, Arabic abjad numerals, and English gematria.
A well-known example of Hebrew gematria is the word chai ("alive"), which is composed of two letters that (using the assignments in the Mispar gadol table shown below) add up to 18. This has made 18 a "lucky number" among the Jewish people. Gifts of money in multiples of 18 are very popular.
Best
ØR
www.orffyreuscodes.com
The truth is stranger than fiction
The truth is stranger than fiction
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IWBurroughs
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re: Cracking Apologia "Wheel Page"
Hello everybody! I got to Orffyreus, his invention and codes (and by extension to this forum) via Øystein's work. Before I got here I had been doing research on the codes in the Shake Speare First Folio.
I instantly knew that Øystein was onto something important in his work. Maybe my understanding of the Rosicrucian codes made it easier for me to see, but his reasoning behind getting to the devil's number is flawless in my opinion.
Euclid lived in 300 BC and wrote about maths. Today I did a google search and got 35,200,000 hits (fittingly I might add). Think about that! Thirty five million hits! For writing about maths 2300 years ago!
When working with numbers in a historical setting Euclid's works is the clearly the first that springs to my mind.
Orffyreus even gives us a blatant hint to push us in the right direction!
So yeah, Øystein please continue with the excellent work! Looking forward to where this is going! :)
I instantly knew that Øystein was onto something important in his work. Maybe my understanding of the Rosicrucian codes made it easier for me to see, but his reasoning behind getting to the devil's number is flawless in my opinion.
Euclid lived in 300 BC and wrote about maths. Today I did a google search and got 35,200,000 hits (fittingly I might add). Think about that! Thirty five million hits! For writing about maths 2300 years ago!
When working with numbers in a historical setting Euclid's works is the clearly the first that springs to my mind.
Orffyreus even gives us a blatant hint to push us in the right direction!
So yeah, Øystein please continue with the excellent work! Looking forward to where this is going! :)
re: Cracking Apologia "Wheel Page"
Welcome IWBurroughs .
I'm wondering if either yourself or Oystein see any evidence from your knowledge of codes and the occult literature that there may have been an interpretation of what we consider 'energy' to be linked to the Devil or 'of the Devil' in 16th and 17th centuries ?
I believe our ideas about energy really only took form after the Renaissance , -it allows us to explain fire and brimstone to our current satisfaction but it also may have changed our understanding of what our ancestors might have suspected about 'energy' .
Could the Devil 'Myth' really be a way of referring to energy in some of the secret societies ?
In current times we find it quite easy to identify massive uses of energy (as in nuclear explosions etc) as being malevolent .
Is it possible that we are relearning the real nature of how our ancestors viewed the Devil ?
I'm wondering if either yourself or Oystein see any evidence from your knowledge of codes and the occult literature that there may have been an interpretation of what we consider 'energy' to be linked to the Devil or 'of the Devil' in 16th and 17th centuries ?
I believe our ideas about energy really only took form after the Renaissance , -it allows us to explain fire and brimstone to our current satisfaction but it also may have changed our understanding of what our ancestors might have suspected about 'energy' .
Could the Devil 'Myth' really be a way of referring to energy in some of the secret societies ?
In current times we find it quite easy to identify massive uses of energy (as in nuclear explosions etc) as being malevolent .
Is it possible that we are relearning the real nature of how our ancestors viewed the Devil ?
Have had the solution to Bessler's Wheel approximately monthly for over 30 years ! But next month is "The One" !
re: Cracking Apologia "Wheel Page"
Most interesting topic, Art.
We know Bessler said that until that point, it had only been God that could create energy from dead materials. (God can do, create and destroy what ever he like).
In my view, God is the answer to what we don't understand, thus God's place in society gets smaller and smaller.
It has traditionally been the Church or religious leaders or groups that has named out mysterious things competing with religion. The Devil has been the name for anything competing to "Jesus" or God.
Science, like in astronomy and secret geometry, that could prove how the "universe" was a solar system, with a central fire (energy) and not system where the Earth was a stationary center of our universe was such a "Devil".
Thus Masonry was "The Devil", Astronomy was "The Devil", science and geometry was the Devil. "Euclid was the Devil at some time... etc.
I believe Energy was always attributed to God. And only up to him to create.
The Bible say that energy and matter can be created...by God.
Bessler say that his principle can create Energy...so it must be from God.
I personally say "God", is just a word for what we can't comprehend.
So in a way they all believe energy can be created..(by what we don't understand).
But I believe the Devil Bessler refer to is a special geometric/Masonic property. Used as common symbol/figure in print and art etc. This is "The Devil in Print" that Bessler also mentions... The "Devil" that makes letters place themselves in the wrong places etc.. The Rosicrucian Code and knowledge. The Devilish competitor to the
Rosicrucianism is also said to have it's own idea of what energy is, and how the smallest parts of the universe is "configured".
It could be traced back to Pythagoras and their "God" or ONE. The Monas, and has the same letters as "Mason" has. Just a curious observation at this point. This theory of RC and energy, say something like quantum mech. that energy is always created and destroyed as the smallest parts somehow "bubble" in and out of existence.. thus a competitor to "God".
My conclusion: Ancient knowledge, Science, Astronomy, Masonry and Rosicrucianism etc. is "The Devil".
Something like that..from my mind..in a hurry..
Best
ØR
We know Bessler said that until that point, it had only been God that could create energy from dead materials. (God can do, create and destroy what ever he like).
In my view, God is the answer to what we don't understand, thus God's place in society gets smaller and smaller.
It has traditionally been the Church or religious leaders or groups that has named out mysterious things competing with religion. The Devil has been the name for anything competing to "Jesus" or God.
Science, like in astronomy and secret geometry, that could prove how the "universe" was a solar system, with a central fire (energy) and not system where the Earth was a stationary center of our universe was such a "Devil".
Thus Masonry was "The Devil", Astronomy was "The Devil", science and geometry was the Devil. "Euclid was the Devil at some time... etc.
I believe Energy was always attributed to God. And only up to him to create.
The Bible say that energy and matter can be created...by God.
Bessler say that his principle can create Energy...so it must be from God.
I personally say "God", is just a word for what we can't comprehend.
So in a way they all believe energy can be created..(by what we don't understand).
But I believe the Devil Bessler refer to is a special geometric/Masonic property. Used as common symbol/figure in print and art etc. This is "The Devil in Print" that Bessler also mentions... The "Devil" that makes letters place themselves in the wrong places etc.. The Rosicrucian Code and knowledge. The Devilish competitor to the
Rosicrucianism is also said to have it's own idea of what energy is, and how the smallest parts of the universe is "configured".
It could be traced back to Pythagoras and their "God" or ONE. The Monas, and has the same letters as "Mason" has. Just a curious observation at this point. This theory of RC and energy, say something like quantum mech. that energy is always created and destroyed as the smallest parts somehow "bubble" in and out of existence.. thus a competitor to "God".
My conclusion: Ancient knowledge, Science, Astronomy, Masonry and Rosicrucianism etc. is "The Devil".
Something like that..from my mind..in a hurry..
Best
ØR
www.orffyreuscodes.com
The truth is stranger than fiction
The truth is stranger than fiction
re: Cracking Apologia "Wheel Page"
Update:
I still work on the project, and read the forum from time to time, but as mentioned in this thread, kids, wife, house and work keeps me a little too busy to go into lengthy discussions and forum posts.
Curiosity:
I happened to meet a person heavily involved in Rosicrucianism, after a night on the town late that night we found that we had a common interest. That person could confirm all my claims of the ancient Rosicrucian/Masonic code (that I have showed some hints of here). The person confirmed, as I suggested, that the secret of the Rosicrucians that Bessler and other great works hide, is still kept among a few worthy and it's true! The secret is still kept among the highest degrees and it is still forbidden to publish, tell or write the secret! The secret has to do with Pythagoras' geometry versus religion! A secret formula, so "beautiful" or sacred that it was considered "God's formula", and the secret use of the formula has been going on from the time of the secret societies long before christ. (Ref. Pythagoras and Plato).
From this exact secret also used by Besler, the Rosicrucians got their name. The name is a code. Their secret is written in the same code in Apologia Poetica by Orffyreus and at the same time used to describe mechanical parts of his machine. And of course the numbering of MT and the MT drawings follow the same scheme and methods.
I'm planning the use of more resources on the project and will let the forum know when a schedule for public approach is set.
Best
ØR
I still work on the project, and read the forum from time to time, but as mentioned in this thread, kids, wife, house and work keeps me a little too busy to go into lengthy discussions and forum posts.
Curiosity:
I happened to meet a person heavily involved in Rosicrucianism, after a night on the town late that night we found that we had a common interest. That person could confirm all my claims of the ancient Rosicrucian/Masonic code (that I have showed some hints of here). The person confirmed, as I suggested, that the secret of the Rosicrucians that Bessler and other great works hide, is still kept among a few worthy and it's true! The secret is still kept among the highest degrees and it is still forbidden to publish, tell or write the secret! The secret has to do with Pythagoras' geometry versus religion! A secret formula, so "beautiful" or sacred that it was considered "God's formula", and the secret use of the formula has been going on from the time of the secret societies long before christ. (Ref. Pythagoras and Plato).
From this exact secret also used by Besler, the Rosicrucians got their name. The name is a code. Their secret is written in the same code in Apologia Poetica by Orffyreus and at the same time used to describe mechanical parts of his machine. And of course the numbering of MT and the MT drawings follow the same scheme and methods.
I'm planning the use of more resources on the project and will let the forum know when a schedule for public approach is set.
Best
ØR
www.orffyreuscodes.com
The truth is stranger than fiction
The truth is stranger than fiction
re: Cracking Apologia "Wheel Page"
That must have been a real boost and sense of vindication for you Oystein. To have these things confirmed by an armslength second party with the corroborating knowledge of that level. What a buzz. I assume that you were careful and tried to remain objective in the discussions so he could fill in the blanks you left open and show his expertise. What a buzz that must have been.
re: Cracking Apologia "Wheel Page"
Yes Fletcher it was a great feeling.
The person almost begged to read some om my writings, and even mentioned arranging meeting with the national RC leader!
So I can now say that, this is the reason George Washington is depicted with science (Pythagoras) on one side, and the Bible (incorporating Geometry) on the other side.
And in the middle..Jacobs Ladder, just behind George Washington..This is the Jacobs ladder Bessler mentions. Jacobs Ladder was pythagoras invention..derived from Pythagoras formula. Leading us to understanding God(s formula).
And, I insisted that by codes, the old Rosicrucianism and the later higher degrees of Freemasonry can be proven to be the same thing. (same but a little different.). They celebrate the same ancient secrets. The person confirmed. "Yes it is basically the same".
I claimed: Only a few percentages of the members know the real secret, the secret that gave Christian Rosenkreutz (CR) and Rosy Cross (RC) their names. The person confirmed. "That sound about right".
It is not written in clear text any time in history. And the basic rule of Masonry is to lie about the truth. Several thousand people know, but it is forbidden to publish. The person answered: "You are right!". It's not allowed..
Close ups attached..
The person almost begged to read some om my writings, and even mentioned arranging meeting with the national RC leader!
So I can now say that, this is the reason George Washington is depicted with science (Pythagoras) on one side, and the Bible (incorporating Geometry) on the other side.
And in the middle..Jacobs Ladder, just behind George Washington..This is the Jacobs ladder Bessler mentions. Jacobs Ladder was pythagoras invention..derived from Pythagoras formula. Leading us to understanding God(s formula).
And, I insisted that by codes, the old Rosicrucianism and the later higher degrees of Freemasonry can be proven to be the same thing. (same but a little different.). They celebrate the same ancient secrets. The person confirmed. "Yes it is basically the same".
I claimed: Only a few percentages of the members know the real secret, the secret that gave Christian Rosenkreutz (CR) and Rosy Cross (RC) their names. The person confirmed. "That sound about right".
It is not written in clear text any time in history. And the basic rule of Masonry is to lie about the truth. Several thousand people know, but it is forbidden to publish. The person answered: "You are right!". It's not allowed..
Close ups attached..
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www.orffyreuscodes.com
The truth is stranger than fiction
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