M. Turbine III

[cloud camper]

Agor, the whole logic behind this concept is 180 deg out of phase. You're relying on wheel motion to slide the weights.

Instead, you need to redesign so that sliding the weights causes the wheel to turn.

This is called getting the horse in front of the cart!

In addition, latency issues even with zero friction will delay the weights sliding until much too late.

The same latency issues will occur again on the upside meaning all the weights will slide to their lowest position as they cannot keep up with the wheel.

[agor95]

Thank you both for your input.

I will try and illustrate the motion as soon as I can in the helper webs site.

All the rods are in motion as shown by the path dots.

The rods are 45 degrees apart.

The top most rods bounces from one side to the other as all the others bound one position as it rotates.

P.S. There is lots of momentum in the device.

Regards

[agor95]

This is an example graph.

The blue line is for one rod in the device.

The green line shows the Theta speed rocking around the Keeling Point.
Then the device breaks out of that and starts to rotate.

I am trying different Delta Times segments to see if it is
a calculation aberration.

The yellow is Torque.

[agor95]

The process of creating an illustration on the web site is more difficult than expected.

It appears there is a data size limit.

Below is the rods displacement graph,

All parts of the device are moving around and the rods
move towards and way from the hub.

That was shown in the original snapshot.

You see in the graph below the value goes from positive to negative.
This is the point when the rod moves to the other side of the hub.

If anyone want to sim this model then I will help them were I can.
(Naturally members first.)

Regards

[agor95]

The helper web site is now updated.


Note. You may have to reload the text section.

[agor95]

I have been adding a revers torque to act as friction.

The simulations fight against friction for long a while.
However when the rod gets into a weak configuration the friction wins.

So one external pendulum would help the transient weakness to be passed
before it results with the above effect.

What I notice is the two momenta types.

1. Rotation - This can receive an initial start

So that energy input is fixed.

2. The rods gain linear momentum as the rod slide down and bounce back
up again. Of cause fiction needs to be added.

We all know the Potential Energy will cancel out

The torque goes all over the place as you can imaging.
However it appears to be biased to support the rotation - in the sim.

Researching goes on.

The aim is to find a strong set of variables with counter friction on HUB and RODs.

[ME]

Agor,
Looked at your graph (screenhunter 13).
Found three frequencies (plus some residual noise) making that curve:
1 cos(1ω) -- The base frequency of rotation;
½ cos(5ω) -- I guess the natural frequency of your spring?;
∓ ¼sin(4ω) -- Halfway it flips sign, as if the rod collides and reflects - but what's that frequency?

So what happens during rotation, and does it already do what it should do?

[agor95]

Marchello

The idea for me was to put in the formula and let it run.

So in a way it is doing what it should do. I had no expectations.

As the device rotates what is down become up.

So the displacement of the rod is positive when one end is down.
Then negative when the rode is upside down.

You can see the motion on the helper site here is the link.

https://steampunks.ddns.net/bessler/wheel/wheel4m

I am trying to implement wheel5m which shows the movement of screenhunter_008 on page 1.

I should take some time to calibrate so I can state the average rotation rate. One came out at 27.5 rpm. That is no good if I cannot confirm it to members and myself.

The spring frequency is difficult as the mass is affected by varying gravity pull, CF and the spring strength is additionally changed with displacement.

So a simple spring / mass resonance is like radio to a 3d color TV.

The best I can do is output each delta T with Theta and get the rotation rate.

[ME]

The spring frequency is difficult as the mass is affected by varying gravity pull, CF and the spring strength is additionally changed with displacement.

So a simple spring / mass resonance is like radio to a 3d color TV.

Hardly, I think.

The spring, which could be considered a pendulum, is now also affected by the wheel-orientation, making it a double pendulum.
Perhaps it's more like stepping up from AM to FM radio?

But your peacock's tail cardioid will be very difficult to approach because of those latency issues as mentioned by CC.

Wheel4, looking like a 5 petalled flower, lags about 6 degrees.
I would suggest to confirm this 6 degrees with your program and see if you're able to makes this lag smaller or, even better, negative.

[agor95]

A double pendulum and AM to FM Radio are both correct.

https://steampunks.ddns.net/bessler/wheel/wheel5m

If you use view source on the web page you can have access to the output data from the sim.

enjoy the illustration.

This one starts at time zero in increments of 0.1 seconds.

The device goes through a sorting out stage then goes into a stable stage.

[Johndoe2]

Agor,
Looked at your graph (screenhunter 13).
Found three frequencies (plus some residual noise) making that curve:
1 cos(1ω) -- The base frequency of rotation;
½ cos(5ω) -- I guess the natural frequency of your spring?;
∓ ¼sin(4ω) -- Halfway it flips sign, as if the rod collides and reflects - but what's that frequency?

So what happens during rotation, and does it already do what it should do?

That is a good start

[agor95]

'That is a good start'

May I offer

'Hope springs eternal
Doubt grows long roots'

I appreciate looking for a formula to best fit the data set is away forward.

I recommend you watch this 30 minutes illustration.

To paraphrase a film 'You call that a start. This is a start'

https://steampunks.ddns.net/bessler/wheel/wheel6m

A pendula would help break the friction in the rod hub junction.

Enjoy and do not fall asleep

[agor95]

https://steampunks.ddns.net/bessler/wheel/index.html

This could work

Link to the above address and bookmark it.

Disconnect from the internet and click on the bookmark.

Regards

[rlortie]

agor95,

When I open: https://steampunks.ddns.net/bessler/wheel/wheel6m
I get a tab named; < X3dom m,Turbine >

In the upper left quadrant of the page I see a framed animation of your rods osculating and rotating. The only text is a link; Take screen shot
Below that I see, Screenshots: 0

How do I open a bookmark in Firefox without internet connection?

Ralph

[agor95]

Hi Ralph

The wheel6m was designed to be part of web page.

So linking to the address above with the index.html ending.

In Firefox the STAR to the right on the search box allows
you to create a bookmark.

After that there are 2 options.

1. Switch off your hub.
2. I stop pedalling this bicycle and the power goes down on the server.

The things I do for the forum :-)

P.S. Let us have Wednesday 14t has a planned down-time day
for steampunks.ddns.net