This is my wheel concept 2017, not Bessler's 1717...

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Fcdriver
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Post by Fcdriver »

The vertical lift areas of a wheel are 10 to 12, and 6:00 to 8:00,,,8:00 to 10:00 and 2:00 to 4:00 are horizontal lift areas
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raj
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re: This is my wheel concept 2017, not Bessler's 1717...

Post by raj »

For the past months, I have been trying to find different configurations of my auto wheel concept that would help one mech system to be fully lifted back and reset at the 12 o’clock position, Fletcher’s sim shows it is not possible.

I now realise that I was trying futile attempts.

One mech system WILL never reset, by itself.
Several mechs, working in precise arrangement will be the prerequisite of a successful wheel.

Bessler has said that with one crossbar, his wheel hardly moved but with two or more, it worked.

“L’union fait la force�.

I rest my case with my original Auto Wheel concept. I hope to build a working prototype in due course.

My search for a wheel is now over.

Raj
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re: This is my wheel concept 2017, not Bessler's 1717...

Post by raj »

My Wheel SEARCH is over.

I have found what I could possibly find: my torque driven wheel consisting of just a drum wheel, weights and strings.

The easiest wheel to understand and replicate.

Tonight is a most religious and sacred night for HINDUS: Night of Lord Shiva.

When I woke up this morning, I was so engrossed in my wheel thoughts, I did not realize what day it was: Maha Shivratri , most sacred day for hindus, like me.

I plod on with my wheel drawings alone at home all day, and at sunset, I got a brainwave.
An idea, improvement on my Auto Wheel concept just flashed.
I immediately made new drawing, rectifying dimensions and materials of my Auto Wheel.

When I finished, I saw my wife watching Maha Shivratri religious ceremony program on our local TV channel.

I felt sad to have completely forgotten a pious day like today.

Then I inwardly thank the LORD. It was meant that way for what I had just found:

Here it is:
My FINAL Auto Wheel concept, with its new configurations.

1. is a drum wheel of eight units diameter.
2. strings of eight units length.
3. strings of ten units length.
4. strings of eight units length.
5. weights swinging on three strings, (2, 3, and 4) on three separate adjoining pivots at 90 degrees intervals, with string(4) in the middle.

Two diametrically opposite weights swing in separate vertical compartments.

Kindly look at this, my last drawing on this forum, and have YOUR SAY.

Thank you.

Raj
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Auto Wheel - 130218 - drawing - UK patent application.jpg
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re: This is my wheel concept 2017, not Bessler's 1717...

Post by Fletcher »

Hi Raj .. I appreciate you say two diametrically opposed weights operate in tandem. However I have created a sim of a single weight with the 3 constraining strings in place for you to consider.

I include 3 Screen Grabs for you to also consider. The second one tracks the single center weight CoM so you can see where it goes in relation to a vertical line beneath the axle for torque purposes.

1. Start conditions with a small push start

2. When the Wheel reverses at 310 degrees

3. An at interval progression of the Dynamic single weight sim.

You can possibly combine different shots to work out where the CoG for two weights is and torque contributions.

All The Best.
Attachments
RajAWFeb18-Dynamic Screen Grabs1.
RajAWFeb18-Dynamic Screen Grabs1.
RajAWFeb18-End 310 degs.
RajAWFeb18-End 310 degs.
RajAWFeb18-Start 0 degs.
RajAWFeb18-Start 0 degs.
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re: This is my wheel concept 2017, not Bessler's 1717...

Post by Fletcher »

And here is the two diametrically opposed weight system Raj.

Note I also show the System CoM as well as tracking weight paths.

FWIW the Wheel revolves to 135.5 degrees before reversing.

Best
Attachments
RajAWFeb18-End 135 degs-2WtSys
RajAWFeb18-End 135 degs-2WtSys
RajAWFeb18-Start 0 degs-2WtSys
RajAWFeb18-Start 0 degs-2WtSys
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re: This is my wheel concept 2017, not Bessler's 1717...

Post by raj »

Dear Fletcher.

Eight weights are Working in collaboration as one system, to rotate CLOCKwise, as the picture shows their positions, providing clockwise torque.

Two diametrically opposite weights per separate vertical space in drum wheel is just to avoid clogging and hindering their motions.

Take all the eight weights together from this starting position, and see how their positions and torque change through 360 degrees, turning clockwise.

PLEASE just draw them, manually, if you care.
You will find continuous torque clockwise.

NB: Bessler has often talked about “Connectedness� which can exist in a whole system and not in isolated part alone.

Raj
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re: This is my wheel concept 2017, not Bessler's 1717...

Post by Fletcher »

OK Raj .. here is the 8 Weight System starting from 0 degrees. It reverses at 22 degrees after being given a small CW push start.

FWIW you can see the accumulation of weights to the left of the vertical beneath the axle.

Best
Attachments
RajAWFeb18-End 0 degs-8WtSys
RajAWFeb18-End 0 degs-8WtSys
RajAWFeb18-Start 0 degs-8WtSys
RajAWFeb18-Start 0 degs-8WtSys
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re: This is my wheel concept 2017, not Bessler's 1717...

Post by sleepy »

Raj,
I know that once you recharge yourself,you will be back with more drawings and more designs.Although you haven't had the wheel success that you've been looking for,you have certainly inspired us to keep trying and to keep sharing.

Fletcher,
Thank you for being a truly helpful member of this forum.Your efforts have allowed us all to move further forward.
Trying to turn the spinning in my brain into something useful before moving on to the next life.
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re: This is my wheel concept 2017, not Bessler's 1717...

Post by Fletcher »

Sleepy .. I get absolutely no pleasure from building these types of sims because they most often ultimately crash someones dreams. And that's not fun for anyone.

My philosophy is to try not to instantly dismiss any idea as unworkable but just switch off and put one foot in front of the other and add the detail the sim requires to operate somewhat as intended. The process is often at odds with the designer because the sim doesn't care nor anticipate what might happen and humans often get that wrong.

Yet from my point of view the process is necessary so that we can all learn something and hopefully apply what we learned to another approach that overcomes that particular weakness. Not easy to do, especially if you are emotionally invested or the 'fever' is high ;7)

For that Raj gets my kudos because he has shared openly and that's why I will sometimes build sims of his inventions so that he, I, and you, can all learn something that otherwise would likely remain in the fog of our dreams. Of course if any of Raj's builds show different behaviour than the sim predicts I would want to compare the real build to the sim to see why, and that is where it could get interesting for me.
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re: This is my wheel concept 2017, not Bessler's 1717...

Post by raj »

@ Sleepy!
Thank you for your kind words.

@ Fletcher.
Thank you for your dedicated help.

As we all know, all addicts crave for their daily dose.

I just love my continued daily dose of Bessler Wheel search.

So here is my today's masterpiece:

This morning I woke up, as always trying to come up with a Eureka idea, with the thought of Pythagoras, his theorem and the right-angle triangle sides of 3,4 and 5 units.
My thought process roamed freely, and came to number 5 that have been abundantly debated on our forum.
I worked on how a right angle triangle with number 5 can be connected with a circle.

I drew a wheel with offset axle, with three spokes of 3, 4 and 5 unit length.
Can anyone see this in my drawing below?

While making some drawings, an idea about ' figure of 8' came.

To cut a story short, it took me this whole day to find my new Auto Wheel concept. This new concept has no connection with any of my previous works/drawings.

It is a beauty or again, as always, just mirage!

What have here:

1. is a drum wheel of six units inner diameter.
2. is axle.
3. are two identical diametrically opposite circular channels, of four units inner diameter, fix/connected to inner rim of drum wheel.
4. are two identical balls/weights resting/rolling, each on separate channels, upwards and downwards alternately, always towards the descending side of drum wheel.

I see four balanced points, each at 90 degrees turns.

Between each 90 degrees balanced points, the ball/weight on the upper channel roll down slower because of gradient difference, while the ball/weight on the lower channel roll faster and ahead to the next balanced point, providing torque.

Then instantly the ball/weight on the upper channel begin to roll faster and ahead than the ball/weight on the lower channel as the gradient of the channels changes for the next 90 degrees, balanced point, providing torque to drum wheel alternately.

Raj
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Auto Wheel - 150218 - drawing.jpg
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re: This is my wheel concept 2017, not Bessler's 1717...

Post by raj »

Can this drawing be seen as the two circular channels in my new auto wheel concept in the drawing above?

It can be shown that there is zero (no) line of symmetry through the point where the three lines in this drawing meet.

This goes to show that the two balls/weights rolling in the two channels can never have symmetric torque.

Raj
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Circle with three spokes of 3, 4 and 5 units length on offset axle- 160218.jpg
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Re: re: This is my wheel concept 2017, not Bessler's 1717...

Post by WaltzCee »

sleepy wrote:Fletcher,
Thank you for being a truly helpful member of this forum.Your efforts have allowed us all to move further forward.
Big heart and sharp mind. Good thing there aren't more Fletchers in the world. Then he'd just be average.
........................¯\_(ツ)_/¯
¯\_(ツ)_/¯ the future is here ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Advocate of God Almighty, maker of heaven and earth and redeemer of my soul.
Walter Clarkson
© 2023 Walter W. Clarkson, LLC
All rights reserved. Do not even quote me w/o my expressed written consent.
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re: This is my wheel concept 2017, not Bessler's 1717...

Post by raj »

This is my CONCLUSION.

The resetting is done every 45 degrees turn of wheel.

The four drawings are showing the 8 weights positions at 11.25 degrees turn clockwise, from start position 1 to resetting position 4, before returning to position 1.

The gif picture is thanks to kind curtsy of Marchello E.

Raj
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2017 Auto Wheel - 250217 -  drawing -weights positions 4.jpg
2017 Auto Wheel - 250217 -  drawing -weights positions 3.jpg
2017 Auto Wheel - 250217 -  drawing -weights positions 2.jpg
2017 Auto Wheel - 250217 -  drawing -weights positions 1.jpg
raj080315.gif
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re: This is my wheel concept 2017, not Bessler's 1717...

Post by raj »

@ Fletcher!

You have given me valuable insight on this thread on pp9/10.
Your sims depictions have been very useful to my understanding of my current concept.

My concept is simply weights swinging on levers and springs inside a drum wheel rotating on split horizontal axle on vertical stands.

Your sims have proven, as expected, that the weight swinging around in orbital path would not close the circular loop to attain reset at the 12 o'clock position.

I am making some changes in the setup of the auto wheel concept:
1. I am moving the auto wheel/ drum wheel from the stands.
2. I am removing the split axle.
3. I am putting a new LARGER/bigger drum wheel on split axle on vertical stands, as a separate flywheel.
4. I am now putting my whole auto wheel inside the larger/bigger drum wheel/flywheel, so that the auto wheel will now rotate on the inner rim of the larger drum wheel instead of rotating on its own axle.
5. To start, we have to push the flywheel from now on.
6. Once the drum wheel/flywheel rotates, the auto wheel will rotate, and the weights will swings JUST as shown in your sims.

Surely the closing of the loop problem will be there. But this time, as the torque reaches zero, forcing auto wheel to stop before the loop is closed, hopefully the larger drum wheel/flywheel will still have some momentum to push the auto wheel past the resetting remaining few degrees turn.

Does this make any sense.
As usual I look forward to your views.

In this drawing, you will recognize some of your sim works. The red circle indicates my larger drum wheel/flywheel.

Thanks.

Raj
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t_raj_autowheel-single_mech-end3 130318 -2.gif
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re: This is my wheel concept 2017, not Bessler's 1717...

Post by raj »

Thanks for the memory jerk, FRANK!

Like you said so often when you were around: " I did it my way ".

Me, too, I am doing it " My Way " even though sometimes I bite " More than I can chew ".

Raj
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