MT thoughts ;7)

[daxwc]

The choice seems arbitrary, I like this one:
The area of triangle[3-4-5] equals 6
The area of triangle[6-8-10] equals 24
6 x 24 equals 144, which point to the missing MT

Point taken; but there is no MT 144 8P

[daxwc]

If Bessler wanted a high R+C to find the code he has to place it in their wheelhouse.

[ME]

There are lists of Famous R+C's... Is Bessler to be found on such list?
Otherwise I guess it may be you detect some 'coincidences' from a time where the perfection of God and all things holy was grasped and defined by the clashing of lines into points and numbers into fascinating ratios.
Besides the pretty and consistent aesthetics (instead of cluttered and chaotic placements), I think things wouldn't be regarded worthy of being read by highly-regarded people without such details.

Like nowadays, where you almost can't have a cool and noticed product, invention or scientific discovery without slick CGI graphics, outrageous head lines and an 'app'. -- Just a current thing to do?
----
Daxwc, I like your number crunching theories... When correct, it should transcend any alternative.
Hope you don't mind I add some alternative, as it only should make yours better.

To continue with right sides triangles, when we only require [a x b] to fall within the MT-limit then we have the fourth triangle (perhaps unfortunately not 3-4-5):
a= 8, b=15, c=17, T=511 ---[8-15-17 triangle]

ab = 120
ac = 136
bc = 255

Both MT120 as MT136 do utilize the Zed, and those motions can't be simplified without that depth-factor.

From MT120 I may conclude at a first glance:
* Masonic A is the source (Fluid in this case);
* B is the way of extraction (sucked up);
* C is the tipping point;
* D is how it flows, or gains;
* E is a connectedness principle;
* F is where the force is applied;
* G is a grounding effect (?)

Perhaps this needs some fine-tuning.
From MT136 I may verify or rectify:
* Masonic A is the source (Overbalance in this case);
* B is the way of extraction (Screwed relocation)
* C is a tip-point where it rotates
* D is how rotation gets enhanced, or gained
* E is where it is empty (inevitable connection with F?).
* F is where it is full (and force applies)

but there is no MT 144 8P

Perhaps all MT is MT144 with this (or similar) template as a guide.
:-)

[Fletcher]

ME:

Why do we need to add the sides of a triangle?
Wasnt' Pythagoras's proof about squares and areas?

I don't know why but R+C put a lot of priority Pythagorean Triple numbers and 3-4-5 triangle.

Deeply rooted in RC. Oystein's area. It is a foundation stone to a pyramid of understanding of Euclid's geometry, and Natures Law v's Religious Law.

For Bessler it is simply a (I mean simple, so a child could see it) Road Marker to a mechanical concept, IMO. The more the numbers 3, 4, or 5 reoccur the more importance etc. Positive reinforcement.

Here is the basic 3-4-5 in MT41, as I see it.

And I highlighted in blue what I think is Bessler's basic Zed applied two sectioned centrally pivoted SB because it was staring at me.

ETA: As I said earlier there was no reason for mistakes to remain in MT. It was his legacy journal.

Whoever knows how to construct them will note that the figures sketched here are not exactly the correct artistic application

Quid Pro Quo, the mistakes were deliberate and left in MT as a lesson, IMO.

Oh Yeah .. 4 +1 = 5 = E

[justsomeone]

Fletcher, you mentioned that Bessler had lots of time on his hands to write....

How do we know when he started working on MT? How do we know that he didn't plan on adding his comments to the remaining mt drawings? How do we know that maybe the best was yet to come and maybe hidden elsewhere?

Your thoughts please.

[Fletcher]

Hi .. JC would be best to give his opinion on that. I think I said JB had loads of time to correct mistakes Just. Didn't it get a mention in AP ?

I take the assumptive that to have a code or codes inside MT (unpublished at his death at 64 or 65) that was coherent, then if he had started MT years earlier he would have had to reshuffle the pages to fit the code. Or have a complete code in mind as he put together MT as we see it today. There appears to be filler substitution drawings which suggest it was already around and he added a code to it, IMO. And he does say in the forward in 1733 (died circa 1745) that he removed various drawings etc. And as I point out IMO there is a high correllation between his written comments pointing out something in the first 25 with his name change cipher. There you have to do a little lateral thinking to match up MT9. But that relates to the German alphabet of 24 letters and because I & J are one, as is U & V.

So we know it was around from at least 1733 to 1745, at the very shortest period.

Also the number 55 - it makes sense to add comments to MT's. But why would you comment on all of them ? Many are self explanatory requiring no comments. You make comments to draw peoples attention to them, so you can send a message in a few of them.

[daxwc]

ME:

Daxwc, I like your number crunching theories... When correct, it should transcend any alternative.
Hope you don't mind I add some alternative, as it only should make yours better.

Feel free, there is a lot a ground to cover and you never know what combination or idea is the key. I believe it is not all diminutive clues in the end. It will be a deliberate code that makes sense if only in hindsight, that doesn’t mean he didn’t put road signs up or diversions. Bessler had to show if someone else stole it that he discovered it first.

[daxwc]

47 is a very important number too as well in R+C history. Since 47 divides the field of MT’s in 3 and on MT47 it shows to rotate the number. I can’t help but think you have to reset the field, turn the decoder ring, move the sequence along or turn the drawing upside down for the next sub set.

Hmm.... there is a spiral on MT 94 (47 + 47)

[daxwc]

Me:

Why do we need to add the sides of a triangle?
Wasnt' Pythagoras's proof about squares and areas?

Your right and he does love equivalent areas. (Sorry I thought you were poking me with a stick the first time around and were not serious.)



Another thing to take into consideration is that if you fold the paper what affect is happening to the area. Mt 41 underconstruction when folded turn into a much smaller exactly the same picture (I don't think I ever calculated how much smaller it got).

[John Collins]

I coined the name ‘Toys Page’ for the page numbered 138, 139, 140 and 141 when I wrote my account of Bessler’s wheel, but I called the MT collection itself, Maschinen Tractate, after Bessler’s description of something he had offered as an additional inducement to the wheel purchaser. He called the collection on offer his Maschinen Tractate and I assumed back then that the current MT was what he was offering.

Later on I was not so sure because this MT seemed more in line with his proposal to teach students and would have made a useful teaching aid and would therefore need several copies, but for a one off publication why would you need more than one copy?

I think his original proposal for Peter the Great was for descriptions of many machines which would have been more useful to the Czar.

So we can be sure that our MT was in existence in 1733 because of the message included on the front, but it may have been much earlier because he blames the destruction of several pages on his arrest which was much earlier.

JC

[Fletcher]

dax .. just something to think about. Here is your MT41 drawing overlay from the original where you were trying out lines and shapes inside the MT41 figure.

You'll note the symmetry of the double lettering except for F centered.

N.B. E on the right side and 41 (5) on the left side in place of where the left side E would have been.

If you use the A's top point as anchors and their leg slopes as angles you can get some RAT's (yellow) that look to be pretty close to 3-4-5 just by eyechrometer. I don't think it is a coincidence that the hypotenuse crosses mid axle. (you'll see the equilateral too)

Haven't actually measured them for lengths and angles. Probably close to what a compass and square could do. If they do come close its probably not a coincidence where the A's are placed in the drawing and their leg angles IMO.

[daxwc]

Interesting Fletcher; why do you call it rat; similar appearance?
You have to remember there is sets of circles that could help your case. I didn’t put them in because his picture already provided the starting points. Every compass and straight edge construction has to start from circles because no measurements were allowed on the straight edge. The circles always complicate and draw your eye away making it look like that rat’s nest.


P.S. I hope I haven't derailed you at least I hope you weren't finished 8)

[daxwc]

@ ME

http://atravellingfreemason.blogspot.ca ... uclid.html

[daxwc]

.

As you probably know ME there is Primitive and Triad Pythagorean Triples the primitive being multiples. The Number 47 cannot be incorporated in any Pythagorean triple. Also the number on the area produced is always an even number so in my opinion since the areas are going to be such high numbers they are going to have be divided by some thing; dividing by numbers like 3, 33, 47, 55 will make them odd again. I will probably come back to it later myself.

Here is a list:

[eccentrically1]

Right Angle Triangles