emblem or decoration ?

[Oystein]

LOL? Sorry you haven't understood what I wrote..

You also believe ORFFREY was Besslers "traditional" spelling on the front page of AP?

The knowledge of a formula hidden from the church was well known before Bessler, and this formula is still kept secret among Rosicrucians and Freemasons of higher degrees!

Now you may understand why someone before Bessler also wrote "50tt" ? Bessler learned his stuff from other and older/elders at his time, as they did before him etc. Secret information passed along from mouth to ears among trustworthy people. Nobody wanted to be killed by the inquisition..

That Bessler did the same, doesn't mean that he didn't apply a code, but shows that he knew and applied a code that you don't know, but several of higher knowledge knew and still know!

For some that is very exciting to discover.. others just fool around and laugh..and did back then too. These are the same people who had a hard time only trying to understand the meaning of the straightforward stories and allegories in the scriptures themself, and wouldn't have any chance to comprehend scientific facts, codes and formulas hidden within.

Pythagoras, Plato, Newton, da Vinci, Albrecht Durer, Bessler etc. was of a whole different kind, than the ordinary man..

[Oystein]

It is fun to observe that King James after publishing the King James Bible anno 1611, in christmas 1611 received the worlds first and largest Christmas card from the great and known German Rosicrucian Michael Maier. The Christmas card involved a large Rose from their RC Manifest: Fama Fraternitatis!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Maier

"a document that came to light in early 1979. This was a manuscript on parchment discovered by the researcher Adam McLean (based in Glasgow) that had been designed and authored by none other than Michael Maier and named by the Scottish Record Office in Edinburgh (now renamed the National Archives of Scotland) as “King James’s Christmas Card.� https://1bd9723bc8b0724b89d9-3657cf4585 ... 052411.pdf

This was in the time of the protestant revolution. And This Bible is still the preferred Bible to swear the Masonic oath on.

https://www.alamy.com/stock-photo-king- ... 76646.html

What does Masonry, Rosicrucianism, and a special bible translation/print possibly have to do with each other.

I claim Bessler knew. And I claim it can be found in AP and MT as a secondary code.

[Oystein]

If you would like to try to understand how the knowledge of these systems still is communicated by the same old code as the great artists did, we may not look further than to some modern artists.

A Norwegian painter that apply the Rosicrucian code in her paintings just named her daughter with 8 names https://www.tv2.no/a/9262458/

Applying alphabetic values of 1600s alphabet from when King James Bible and the first Rosicrucian Manifestos were published, we get:

Blanca Rose Mae Thyra Elisabeth Anna Margareth Veslemøy.

The initials:
B R M T E A M V
1+17+12+19+5+1+12+20 = 88

Where the first 5 initials make BRMTE=55
and the last 3 AMV = 33
Total value: 55+33=88

Just like Bessler's Merseburg Pendulum weights, where one weight is cut out of the last pendulum, to get:
5 square weights of # 11 = 55
3 circular weight of #11 = 33
Weights Totally 88

This is a very old, even ancient Rosicrucian code, used in print and art and still being done. Rosicrucianism is still kept silent, but being done with great bravour, we can read in the Masonic encyclopedia.

Hint: 8x8 is a checkerboard!!!!

[ovaron]

Now I understand. Bessler's secret is known to the Rosicrucians and Freemasons. It can not be explained otherwise why he allegedly encoded his secret with Masonic and Rosicrucian codes.
That such codes exist in his writings is well known. It is new to me that his secret is no secret at all for Masons and Rosicrucians, as it is described with their codes.
My explanation for these codes was so far that he only wanted to show the initiates that he knows their codes.

[Oystein]

That could very well be! But I don't think AP alone would make his peer RC's discover his whole secret. More like giving them teasers..He could even use their codes to lead them astray, away from his secret! I think that both knowledge about PM, RC codes and a copy of MT in hand, is what was needed. He kept MT until his death!

What I wanted to establish, and the watermark is in line with this, is that an undocumented and secret code does exist, AND more important:If you don't know this traditional but still secret code, you will think that the traditional code describes something in the machine!


Like when discovering "55", is it really Besslers own secret code for 5 mechanisms each way? Or is it the traditional Rosicrucian secret? How could we know if we don't investigate that first? Or, does it mean that when knowing this code we may think that in MT 17 (1+7=8) 3 weights go upward while 5 weight go downwards (totally 8 weights) And then 33 55 88 means the same but bidirectionally (x2)...

So, by learning the first undocumented code, future researchers may then see what is left..and that must be Besslers own code! Even though I know by experience that Masons and Rosicrucians will be pissed!!

Since this has been going on for centuries and I have gotten it confirmed that initiates or adepts are not allowed to write it down, I think it is A BIG deal that I now believe it can be documented and a conclusion, with a reasonable and intelligent answer has been found, and will be publicly available! Then research on Bessler can also move faster forward, without the annoying standard RC codes leading us astray? :)

[ovaron]

Anyway, everything is very confusing, at least for me. That the codes exist, you have already proven. Only the question remains, can the code be decrypted using the writings of Bessler? Does Bessler have his own code, which is similar to that of the Freemasons but has a completely different meaning? Is he just trying to tease the Freemasons? (At least I can imagine that best. :-))

[Oystein]

That was a good summary and question..and potentially fruitful and constructive wondering..

[daxwc]

Oystein:

That could very well be! But I don't think AP alone would make his peer RC's discover his whole secret. More like giving them teasers..He could even use their codes to lead them astray, away from his secret! I think that both knowledge about PM, RC codes and a copy of MT in hand, is what was needed. He kept MT until his death!

What I wanted to establish, and the watermark is in line with this, is that an undocumented and secret code does exist, AND more important:If you don't know this traditional but still secret code, you will think that the traditional code describes something in the machine!


Like when discovering "55", is it really Besslers own secret code for 5 mechanisms each way? Or is it the traditional Rosicrucian secret? How could we know if we don't investigate that first? Or, does it mean that when knowing this code we may think that in MT 17 (1+7=8) 3 weights go upward while 5 weight go downwards (totally 8 weights) And then 33 55 88 means the same but bidirectionally (x2)...

So, by learning the first undocumented code, future researchers may then see what is left..and that must be Besslers own code! Even though I know by experience that Masons and Rosicrucians will be pissed!!

Since this has been going on for centuries and I have gotten it confirmed that initiates or adepts are not allowed to write it down, I think it is A BIG deal that I now believe it can be documented and a conclusion, with a reasonable and intelligent answer has been found, and will be publicly available! Then research on Bessler can also move faster forward, without the annoying standard RC codes leading us astray? :)

Very good; I agree with the whole post. Although Bessler might have wanted a R+C person to find it he was probably too paranoid to hide it too close. The biggest clue might be the compass in his hand and the book with two style A's from his portrait.

[Oystein]

Good daxwc!

Elaboration on watermarks:

AP holds the Fleur-de-Lis and the letters "c r".

Fleur-de-Lis is a French Royal Emblem!

Then, here are some other "CR" Watermarks attached from Francis Bacon and from Shakespeare! What do they have in common with Besslers "c r" watermark?

Both have the letters "C R" and a French connection, and some have parts of the French Royal Fleur-de-Lis.

Grapes and a Wine container! Grapes and Wine is also a typical French business.

(They also show a pyramid...created from a traingle (3) of 5 grapes. And if it is a full 3-dimensional pyramid, it would contain 55 grapes. Heard of similar numbers before?

I have documented that inn these books hiding these watermarks, I find the use of the same kind of common secret code. And they hide the same ancient secret figure! Silly as i sounds: Orffyreus applies and discloses the Shakespeare code, but in reality, it's all about the Rosicrucian and Masonic code used by several more great historical persons and groups even before "Shakespeare" and after Orffyreus..

So, what did Orffyreus and Bacon have in common? Both were men of new revolutionary science, special brains and highest intelligence of their time! And as Bessler said he spied on every higher learned person, while Bacon and his Brother run a secret code-company, writing coded messages and worked as a spy for the queen..

[ovaron]

You also believe ORFFREY was Besslers "traditional" spelling on the front page of AP?

Could it be that Bessler secretly wants to call himself king with this "misspelling"?
rey (spanish) = king

[rlortie]

(They also show a pyramid...created from a traingle (3) of 5 grapes. And if it is a full 3-dimensional pyramid, it would contain 55 grapes. Heard of similar numbers before?

See: Tetrahedron
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tetrahedron

In geometry, a vertex (plural: vertices or vertexes) is a point where two or more curves, lines, or edges meet. As a consequence of this definition, the point where two lines meet to form an angle and the corners of polygons and polyhedra are vertices.[1]

[Oystein]

Yes, as a Tetrahedron the number would be 35. So 35 or 55 is the total sum..

We have gone through this before-- 3&5 becomes 35 or 55 in a pyramid.

Both numbers are hidden in Besslers "magic numbers"..

[daxwc]

Catalog of interesting watermarks.

https://www.microsofttranslator.com/bv. ... assi%3D004


I did find one with a upside lily so it wasn't unheard of before.

https://www.microsofttranslator.com/bv. ... Fid%3D2144

[Oystein]

Nice find!

Attached are some musings around things I have found before..all related to the same code as appeared in AP and found in other RC/CR works in history..

Like the Shugborough inscription and The search for the "Grail in aRCadia" traditionally painted by the great Poussin..

Letters may change because they look similar..here shown by placing a finger...then you no longer know what the letters was.. could be two...or three..different alternatives..

This connection attached here is just musings, but there is something about the B and it's transformation tradition (by appearance) and it is proven in AP, and is applied as a code.. This was also done in earlier great(-est of the greatest) publications, and in later great work.. ref. the shugborough monument..

NB! A connection to this specific watermark was just done to show how it would look like if the same code was applied in that specific watermark. (Musings).