A Picture of JEEB's Axle.

[rks1878]

Here's a picture of JEEB's axle.

[jimmyjj]

Would the wheel still hold together if the iron rod did not go all the way through?i.e if a pendulum could swing all the way without an axle getting in the way.
Jimmy

[rks1878]

Yes I believe that a wheel could be made that would be strong enough without a single one piece axle.

The spokes that cross in the center would be half-lapped with an iron plate screwed to them on both sides.

JB could have used lag bolts where the wood axle came through to the inside of the wheel.

I could build one that would allow a pendulum to swing across. The pendulum arm wouldn't need a lot of room to pass by. In the 14-18" thick wheels, there was just that much more wood axle on the inside to brace and fasten to.

I don't think there was a pendulum inside though...

[jim_mich]

My first PM wheel attempt (six years ago) had an axle stub on each side while the two sides of the wheel were fastened together near the rim. It had pendulums that swung through the middle where the axle would normally pass through.

[rlortie]

Just about any combination you can dream up is possible with a little thinking. I have done a few such as.
1. stub axles or spindles that do not penetrate the wheel
2. A solid axle or shaft inside a hollow axle, hollow axle does not penetrate. solid shaft is connected to outside pendulum and inside bellcrank.
3. A solid stationary axle with interior offset, wheel turns on and not with said axle.
4. My latest calls for a solid axle with two interior offsets and a hollow hub or carrier output shaft on one side of wheel.
5. Hollow non-penetrating axle with stationary inner shaft supporting internal stationary mechanism. May or may not be offset.

As Jules Verne said if man can write about it he will someday build it.

Ralph

[ken_behrendt]

Robert...

I have learned the hard way not to trust dreams when it comes to possible internal details of Bessler's inventions.

Your one-piece iron axle has a few problems with it that occurred to me:

Firstly, since the entire weight of the drum and its weights rests on the middle of the axle, I think this would cause a long metal axle to flex or even be permanently bowed by the deformation. Then when the wheel was started up, it would be rising and falling several inches vertically per each wheel rotation. If it did not do that, then it might be continuously flexing the long iron axle back and forth and this could lead to catastrophic metal fatigue that would snap the axle into two pieces which could then tear the drum apart as the whole structure collapsed between its vertical supports.

Secondly, Bessler would have had to precisely bore center holes down along the entire length of each half of the wooden section of the external axle. This is not that difficult with modern equipment, but Bessler might have had to use a carpenter's auger with really long bore bits to do it. I think the chances of boring such a long shaft through the wooden pieces so that the exit hole was perfectly centered would be extremely difficult if not impossible with hand tools.

My approach, I feel, is the simplest. I envision the 3/4 inch iron pivots that emerge from the end of the axle to be short iron rods with tapered ends that were merely inserted into bored holes in the ends of the axle. I've attached one of my past sketches of my approach below.

ken

[Jonathan]

Ken, looking at Robert's attachment, I thought the axle was made of four half cylinders, each with a slice missing on one end and a 'foot' on the other. If that is correct, then the central hole for the iron rod could be made with chisels, like taking the center out of half a carrot, so that it becomes like an orange piece of celery.

[Fletcher]

Yes Jonathan, that's exactly how early wooden barrelled cannons were made so the technique would have been known.

[ken_behrendt]

Yes, you guys are probably correct, it would have been possible to make a straight shaft through the center of the axle in that way so that it could accomodate a long, one-piece iron rod whose ends would be tapered to form pivots.

But, this seems like a troublesome approach to me and would require that the 4 half wooden axle pieces be tightly affixed to each other so that they would not split apart when the weight of the drum was placed upon them.

My approach transfers all of the stress of drum and axle weight to the ends of the axle where the wood would have been bored out to make room for the short iron pivots. This approach also has some structural problems associated with it and might require that the ends of the wooden axle have metal collars wedged onto them to reinforce them against the wood splitting at those points.

ken

[rlortie]

Here is an attachment of my second attempt at using "Paint".

It shows one of my ways to gain mechanical transference around a solid axle.
There are more!

Ralph

[rlortie]

Ken,

Your comment about auger drilling a hole through a wood axle and coming out dead center. is well noted. You get around this problem by holding the auger stationary and turning the axle while the auger is fed inwards. Here is a link with a little trivia on lathe work dating back before bessler showing that he had the technology availabe to do so.

http://www.his.com/~tom/sca/lathes.html

Also note the use of the term turners, "he who turns the turner"

Ralph

[rks1878]

The impression from the dream was that the axle was hollow. That it was coopered together somehow. If so, then you'd only need a plug with a hole drilled into it for the rod at each opening.
I guess something swung or there was a counterweight in the middle where there is a separation between the wood sections.

[rlortie]

Many times I have read the eye witness report about the tapered pins in tapered bushing resting in a half circle groove.

Many times I have tried to communicate how I percieve this.

Thanks to Jonathans Paint insructions here is my third postable drawing. I have added the pendulum crank and axis rod, but they were not reported as such by the eye witness.

Ralph

[Jonathan]

I see now, that is roughly what (I think) most of us think (except Ken apparently, his drawings show a pretty close fit). But since the journals were open to inspection sometimes, then in that case the inner radius of the bushing, and the upper half of the column, would be removed, as seen in my drawing (which shows only the tapered iron end, from side and end on).
EDIT PS For simplicity when drawing it, I assumed the bushing center coincided with the top of the iron peg/rod.

[ovyyus]

I think it was simply...