The puzzle has been solved

[Fcdriver]

Hi Cloud camper, I ask you a serious question: have you ever seen a system, without springs, able to lift up its global COM a little ? I had not seen it before two or three days ago. :-)

"That seems quite a bit restrained from an earlier statement that the raising of the COM was "very, very, very evident"."
You and I have problems with mutual understanding :-) What I wrote was not directly related to the amount of COM movement. "Very very very evident" was referred to what is able to do that kind of mechanism. Until a few days ago I did not believe that it was possible to raise the global COM of a system of weights and levers only thanks to the force of gravity. It sounds rather irrational, but it's possible.

"While any raising of the COM is truly significant and needs to be explored further (of course), it doesn't sound like this is anywhere near Bessler's claimed 4/1 lift ratio. "
I believe you misunderstood what Bessler meant. It is certainly impossible to obtain such a lifting ratio. To me, what he meant is exactly what he did and I replicate: a single mechanism manages to lift (in a certain sense) four mechanisms.
remember his sentence: "greed is an evil root" :-)

Silvertiger, you're right, I should do that.




To the others who wrote I answer this:
I managed to crack your magic toy/game of unrealizable dreams. I can imagine the bitterness derived from this. I'm sorry but my intuition was stronger than me. :D

So if you are so sure, at what rpm does the limited speed of lift cause the Com to shift? How do you adjust the slow speed of lift per change in rpm?

[unstable]

Damn !
You're right Silrvertiger, thanks for the video-guide.
I return to the den with low ears. My patch to crack it, did not work :-))

I can not disappoint your expectations so I say:
"but then Bessler's wheel was a fraud!" :-) LOL

Seriously, better investigate further on the configuration I showed. Many clues of the toys page match.

As someone had written, it could be that Bessler was able to dislocate the position of a mass only apparently and for a certain number of degrees, just for the time to let gravity act. It is the only sensible thing that could lead to the results obtained by him. But how he did it I have no idea at the moment ...

On the one hand I feel relieved ... I was convinced it was the solution and I had already regretted having shared it. The next time I discover something serious I will not share it ... the dish is too tasty to be shared. :-)

I do not think it was a fraud, he really must have found a super smart way to get the rotation by gravity.

[unstable]

The puzzle has been ALMOST solved. :D

I think I am on the right track. Now I'm thinking of a way to use that mechanism.

[sleepy]

Thanks to Silvertiger for making this thread short and sweet.
Also, a big thanks to unstable for sharing his idea openly and for coming back and admitting that he spoke too soon on his discovery. This is a great example of this forum working as it should. Someone has an idea,shares it openly.Other members add new insight and help to prove or disprove the validity of the idea.Suddenly,I want to hug somebody.

[cloud camper]

Yeah - we can't be too hard on Claudio - he's still in the newbie stage when you believe the problem just can't be that difficult.

But sooner or later he will figure out the basic nature of PM research and that is:

Negative expectations produce negative results.

Positive expectations also produce negative results!

[unstable]

... and I would like to see well. By force that nobody succeeds:
was a fraud ...

LOL elevated to the cube square 2

[Senax]

Yeah - we can't be too hard on Claudio - he's still in the newbie stage when you believe the problem just can't be that difficult.

But sooner or later he will figure out the basic nature of PM research and that is:

Negative expectations produce negative results.

Positive expectations also produce negative results!

LOL :-)

To be fair, he is hardly a newbie. He joined the forum years before either of us.

I'm not such a cynic as you so I would rephrase your words somewhat:

"Negative expectations" always "produce negative results.

"Positive expectations also produce negative results" nearly always. ;-)

[unstable]

In reference to what you wrote: it all depends on what you look at, that is, on the goodness of the intuitions. A volcano of good ideas (no, not me) will certainly have more chances to find the solution.

This morning I had a brilliant idea. I'm not at home and I can not verify its functionality. If what I thought works ... everything is solved. The toys page is always a great source of inspiration.

[Senax]

If what I thought works ..

.
I'm glad you said "If".

If you can keep your head when all about you
Are losing theirs and blaming it on you,
If you can trust yourself when all men doubt you,
But make allowance for their doubting too;
If you can wait and not be tired by waiting,
Or being lied about, don’t deal in lies,
Or being hated, don’t give way to hating,
And yet don’t look too good, nor talk too wise:

If you can dream—and not make dreams your master;
If you can think—and not make thoughts your aim;
If you can meet with Triumph and Disaster
And treat those two impostors just the same;
If you can bear to hear the truth you’ve spoken
Twisted by knaves to make a trap for fools,
Or watch the things you gave your life to, broken,
And stoop and build ’em up with worn-out tools:

If you can make one heap of all your winnings
And risk it on one turn of pitch-and-toss,
And lose, and start again at your beginnings
And never breathe a word about your loss;
If you can force your heart and nerve and sinew
To serve your turn long after they are gone,
And so hold on when there is nothing in you
Except the Will which says to them: ‘Hold on!’

If you can talk with crowds and keep your virtue,
Or walk with Kings—nor lose the common touch,
If neither foes nor loving friends can hurt you,
If all men count with you, but none too much;
If you can fill the unforgiving minute
With sixty seconds’ worth of distance run,
Yours is the Earth and everything that’s in it,
And—which is more—you’ll be a Man, my son!

[unstable]

Thanks to Silvertiger for making this thread short and sweet.
Also, a big thanks to unstable for sharing his idea openly and for coming back and admitting that he spoke too soon on his discovery. This is a great example of this forum working as it should. Someone has an idea,shares it openly.Other members add new insight and help to prove or disprove the validity of the idea.Suddenly,I want to hug somebody.

I appreciate your post but ...wait. Silvertiger is right for the objects energy pendings in WM2D but it is to soon for trash the multistage lifter. I am convinced about its utility in this game. Time we tell the truth.

Silvertiger, any mechanism brought to the point of balance would do nothing. That's not the point. I was wrong to evaluate the simulation, but certainly the mechanism must be considered in a dynamic operation

[Silvertiger]

All you have to do in WM2D is measure the system KE, which of course shows diminishing returns...otherwise conservation laws would be wrong and perpetual motion would be an everyday commonplace household appliance. Energy is converted into friction and heat and other forms of energy other than the form you want it to be in...that's reality. No way around that with your design.

[unstable]

Silvertiger, I'm sorry but I do not agree with you. First of all, the friction involves heat generation, they are closely related. If you look at events only from a static point of view, it is probably as you say but the reality is different. Not even Bessler's wheel would work, following your logic. Things are more complex than what you wrote.

[Silvertiger]

Since you're so convinced that everyone is out of step but you Johnny, how much are you willing to stake on your claims in the form of a wager?

[unstable]

Are you "everyone" ? I think you're talking for you, not for everyone. You can not know what others think :-)

Bet on what? On the fact that events in physics are more complex than you are describing them?
I would not bet on the possibility of a profitable use of the multistage lifter, that I do not know yet, and I'm not as convinced as you think. But on the fact of the dynamic events of physics absolutely yes... and I think you are convinced of this too, otherwise we would not be here and Bessler's wheel could never work.

[Silvertiger]

Silvertiger, I'm sorry but I do not agree with you. First of all, the friction involves heat generation, they are closely related. If you look at events only from a static point of view, it is probably as you say but the reality is different. Not even Bessler's wheel would work, following your logic. Things are more complex than what you wrote.

Friction produces heat, but friction itself is drag and slows down machines. Heat is another form of energy. These are entropic losses; energy is conserved, meaning the machine will stop. Once again that is reality...physics. Your mech is not more "complex" than that. The wager is for your claims about the potential uses for your much in a PM. In a "dynamic operation", your mech will still do no work. It will use up as mech energy as you put into it with a good shove. Learn physics, then you will be better equipped to meet design challenges. :)