The puzzle has been solved

[Art]

Hi Fletcher ,

Quote "The extra pic of the simple lw with a tapered shaft is the spring element (mentioned by B) IMO. A leaf type spring as has been suggested. It must have some extra importance (above the obvious) in Bessler's back narrative for it to be included and highlighted, because its inclusion at face value appears to be frivolous and redundant, if not entirely unnecessary given that he says there are springs and it is such a simple drawing.

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It seems possible that he may have intended (or did) put in some sort of a reference code that details some sort of selection process where certain parts of the MTs are picked out and combined with parts of other MTs .

This might explain some of the "unrealistic" mechanical arrangements of some of them . So I think you are probably right , it does appear pretty redundant .

Some of the MTs also seem to me to have a narrative attached which doesn't appear relevant to the drawings , -

eg MT 50 . I can't come even close to thinking I understand what he says there ! All I can see is a sort of profile view of a compression spring on the left and I don't know what on the right ! Buckets and ball tracks don't seem to make much sense .

Lots of room for speculation everywhere with good old Bessler !

[Fletcher]

Hi Art .. MT IMO is an exercise and challenge in sorting the wheat from the chaff, in terms of what is mechanically possible and what is not for a 'true PMM'. Add in B's commentaries for the first 54 and Toys Page, and the drawings thereafter, and the matrix of possibilities for the correct path to follow grows exponentially. I guess that's where the discerning mind and the combining of various drawings comments might lead to an eventual motion and movement to be found. FWIW I think that B must have followed some sort of order/structure (probably subconsciously at least) in the layout and sequencing of information provided else it would appear just a rambling manifesto of a mad man. That's not how I see it altho at times it can feel to me chaotic and insufficiently structured (on purpose I am sure) which can be hugely frustrating which I figure was the purpose. i.e. to cull out most whom might read the incomplete MT because it is hard to maintain energy and be inspired and understand the lessons when the punch line is missing (hindsight is 20/20), because he removed certain drawings. These appear to have been partially replaced by the Toys Page which must have some relevance to the solution.

Personally I think Oystein, dax and JC, for example, have found hidden codes in MT and other works that do appear to have order and purpose. And being able to follow these 'bread crumbs' should logically and efficiently lead to B's solution rather than the sheer brute force approach and grunting my way thru MT etc that I have attempted at times. That is, if, the codes and ciphers main purpose is to take you to a real PMM solution, or are there for another reason entirely which has been discussed many times ? So each of us invests in what we think is the best way forward for us, with the highest likely returns for our efforts.

MT50 is an 'avalanche drive' type proposal using rolling balls where the tubes are the 'buckets' analogy.

[unstable]

Just some thought to think about...

We must not forget that to make a revolution in slightly more than 2 seconds (60 seconds / 26 complete revolutions) there is very little time to overcome the inertia of the masses and to give way to the gravity of acting. I believe the movement of weights was very short and fast.
Such a quick movement brings to mind an arrangement of weights as in MT17... something that in the masses (weights, interconnections and levers) is constantly changed but that it does not need long times to happen. I mean a homogeneous variation of arrangement that includes all the weights and that happens continuously and during the relatively "fast" rotation.
I think it is not correct to think of separate mechanisms that act on 2 or 4 weights ... there would not be enough time to make all the required actions happen in sequence. Most likely it must be something that includes all the weights and that varies the redistribution in a constant and fast way. Think about it. Two seconds are really few on a wheel that had the dimensions we know.
Could it be that with the term "connectedness" B. meant a mechanical connection that included all weights ?

[Georg Künstler]

Hi Unstable

no problem, the wheel will turn with this speed.

I have calculated on my 2 meter wheel and I can shift the 2 kg weights by a maximum of 12 cm, periodically. But because the weights are acting in pairs the shift will be 24 cm.

Depending on the version of which type of the Besslerwheel, the test wheel must have a specific size, so that gravity has time to act.

So builders which construct a wheel with a diameter of 80 cm will always fail.

When I get back my big test wheel in October from Bad Karlshafen, I will change it with this new construction, it will run in one direction.

The bi directional construction can be buildt smaller, I have foreseen a size of 80 cm. I will see when I find the time to buildt it, I am not in a hurry to complete it in real.

Could it be that with the term "connectedness" B. meant a mechanical connection that included all weights ?

Yes, you are right !! all weights are moving simultaneously.

[Art]

Quote Georg , "When I get back my big test wheel in October from Bad Karlshafen, I will change it with this new construction, it will run in one direction. "

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How did that go Georg ?

Did you meet anybody not connected online that had a previous interest in Bessler . ?

What was the general reaction from people that saw the exhibits ?

Did the people you met immediately want to "Google it" or was it a wonderment where the fast food takeout was ?


I think your effort was enormous with that , I hope somebody appreciated it !

[ovaron]

So builders which construct a wheel with a diameter of 80 cm will always fail.

Bessler's first wheel in Gera was only about 80 cm in diameter. He himself writes in APO 1, page 44:

"Mein Werk war hoch drittehalb Schuch /"

"drittehalb (third-half)" (old german expression that is no longer used today) is falsely equated with three and a half, which is not true. "drittehalb" means "das Dritte zur Hälfte (the third only half)" or present German "zweieinhalb" (two and a half)".

IMO the wheel must not be very large to work.

[Andyb]

Ovaron,i agree the wheels size matters not, unless you are building one 3mm in od ,which in the old days was not possible ,but know days, well you know,it does take a lot of skill to build a smaller wheel ,but really at the end of the day the skills are developed over time and the more you build the better you get, i love that bit in life because it is truly satisfying to see your skills develop,i am sure Bessler felt the same pride and achievement that really would of driven him along ,Andyb

[unstable]

"Bessler's first wheel in Gera was only about 80 cm in diameter. He himself writes in APO 1, page 44:"

... and here too we would have to discuss. Somewhere I had read that B. wrote that the wheels were based on at least two different principles. This is quite absurd. nobody has yet discovered one principle and instead B. discovered even two? As I had written before, I have the feeling that the first wheels were fake. For me, B. later discovered (with the last two large bidirectional wheels) a method to obtain continuous motion.
I can try to believe and accept that there is some physical principle that has to do with inertia and griavity in a dynamic behavior and it has not yet been well defined. But that the wheels were constantly unbalanced even when stationary, no, I do not believe it ;-) in my opinion was a fake.

[Georg Künstler]

Hi Unstable,

In my opinion Bessler had 3 types of wheels,

1. the self starting version which was always out of balance from the beginning

2. the one directional which is using the impact for re arangment of the weights

3. the 3 chamber wheel, where he is writing "and you still don't understand"

All of them are based on a feedback Loop and are top heavy.



A selfstarting wheel is a wheel, where gravity is given a chance to lift a weight up and sidewards.
This I tried to show you on the tread T-Pendulum under stress.
It is a two stage pendulum which can apply force up and sidewards.

The second Version I think is the version which I had presented in my patent which you see on my hompage
http://www.kuenstler-energie.de/index.php?id=23

Here I have made a little error because I wasn't able to block the reswing
of the cylinders.
This problem I have solved now.

The third Version version is based on the 3 chamber wheel, working as a hoola hoop. I have all parts for that version already available, but no time to put the pieces together. It is the elegantest way which Bessler discovered, in my opinion. It is the oscillator itself.

[unstable]

Hi George, I have to admit that you really have a lot of imagination :-) Good luck with your three different operating principles.

I find that the beginning state is not a problem...is to maintain that state after one (or a half) rotation which becomes all very problematic. :-)

In our fantasy everything would turn without problems ... to me, life itself can abundantly turn my "attributes". Maybe rotation is a natural, spontaneous fact. ;-)

[Georg Künstler]

Hi Unstable,

have a look how an amplifier is working, from the Radio.
how is that possible ?

What is necessary to achieve this ?

Which Elements do you need ?

How can you turn a signal by 180 degrees ?

How can you store energy temporary ?

How can you delay a Signal ?

How can you overlay 2 frequencies ?

...

To store energy from/in gravity you have not so many Opportunities if you look back to 1712.
You have a spring and the high of the mass.
But how can you construct a saw shape oscillation function mechanically ?

A win of energy from gravity must only allow a simultaneous move sidewards and up.
If you do both at the same time, then you can extract this energy.

Because you have then made a side shift you can lift with lower weight a heavier weight up.

Eccentric masses allow a lot of such movements.
They oscillate during their move with pressure on the ground.
Store energy and move sidewards , release energy and move sidewards.

I think I will release some more swinging possibilities pictures so that you see which ways are possible.

[unstable]

...have a look how an amplifier is working, from the Radio.
how is that possible ?

What is necessary to achieve this ?

Which Elements do you need ?

How can you turn a signal by 180 degrees ?

How can you store energy temporary ?

How can you delay a Signal ?

How can you overlay 2 frequencies ?

I'm an electronic enthusiast. I know how an amplifier works.

1) Through a circuit that includes active and passive components and in first
place a source of energy: the power supply.

2) Active and passive components.

3) Through a phase shift network.

4) Batteries ... or for very limited sources in time, capacitors

5) Through a delay network.

6) By an adder (mixer)

You did not ask the most important thing: which principle is based on. The amplification is obtained thanks to one or more active components (transistor, fet, mosfet ... or in the electronic tubes starting from the triode configuration), these components allow to have a great variation of current / resistance and consequently voltage, with a small variation on their "input" (base, gate, control grid). But as you can well understand, if there is no voltage applied to the circuit, this will not work.

I understand that you write these things to try to help but you should first use them for yourself :). What I believe you did not understand well is the difference between a passive system and an active system. Try to amplify a signal or to generate an oscillation of any frequency without a power source :-)

Mechanical systems, while sharing some physical principles with electricity, operate in a different way. I do not think it is possible to make parallels of functioning except on basic principles.

Sorry George, but if you're so convinced of what you say, why have not you built a wheel or a pendulum that works continuously without energy supplied from outside ?
No offense Georg ... but you're going a little too far :-)

[Georg Künstler]

Hi Unstable,

the principle from a gravity wheel and an amplifier is the same.

What electronic component equates a mechanical component ?

If you have a voltage as you said and no oscillation how will your amplifier work ?
If you have an energy source and no oscillation, how can you manage a Feedback Loop.

Our energy source is gravity !!
In the evening I will pass to you an example, how you can power the wheel.
Simplified. Using the overweight and overweighted principle. You will see what is active and what is a passive element in the drawing which I will prepare.

[Georg Künstler]

Hi Unstable,
I have prepared a drawing for you with a T-Pendulum.

On one side of the T-pendulum you see a roll.
Maybe you can compare the T-pendulum with a crane.

The weights on the roll will be each 1 KG.
So the T-Pendulum is top heavy.
The weights on the roll like to pull the T-Pendulum down. 1 oscillator.

The left side will be heavier until one weight is touching the Hamster wheel.
When this happen, we get a turning impulse to the Hamster cage.
But now one of the left weights is heavier than the other,
one is laying on the Hamster cage and therefore weightless. 2 Oscillation.
Here you see the function one is arranging the other

To support the up-/downwards swinging we can add some springs.

[unstable]

Hi Georg, nice, thanks for sharing your idea. I am not at home. Next week, when i come back home I try to simulate it.