The nature of gravity.

[Zhyyra]

the firmament is anything but solid. The firmament in this context just refers to the heavens (outer space).

That is obvious, lol. I was referring to the ancient concept. I myself am not one who goes to church. So I do not know if priests still think in that way or not.

Oh, okay. BTW, I'm not one who goes to church either.

would we not then be God-like?" We are God-like,

I had mean't in capabilities if our civilization WAS billions of years old. Get mad at someone and you point a finger... zap! ;)

Lol, can't wait :D Anyway, just an interesting thought on that point. We are creative far beyond any other physical created life form. Our communication skills are far beyond that of any other physical life form that we know. We are the only life form that cooks its food. Do you have a dog or some other pet? You are probably its god. I once read the story of White Fang that was written from the dogs perspective, the masters were gods.

[IamAllergicToEntropy]

They never suffer. A single photon has no entropy. That's probably why I am allergic to it. :)

Aha, so we have to assume that single photons do not interact with its environment or ,otherwise , the interaction is in such a way that the profit is 100% equal to the loss...

It's not about the photon's interaction. It's about the atom/molecule/oscillator's interaction. Yes, photons interact, but a photon is not a system. The photon is a fundamental entity which can not be further broken into more constituents. The photon's energy (self) does not contribute to it's own disorder, it has no disorder. It is simply a packet of energy (quantum). It's that darn probability thing in a system dictated by what is called multiplicity. :)

[Georg Künstler]

But Gravitation arranges things.
Normally in that way that the things are laying on the ground.

So the ground is just a lever that prevents gravity from working.

If you know some technic from self defence, then you also know the words

"siegen durch nachgeben"Win by giving in".

You have to use gravity for your own benefit. You cannot fulfill this out if you are rigid. No, you must be able to move yourself.

The same will happen with the Bessler Wheel. If the System will be rigid, it will not work.

So the way must be ?

[agor95]

IamAllergicToEntropy:

A single photon has no entropy

I try to keep away from absolutes.

Lets say entropy happens due to interaction with other entities.
That normally results in absorption of the photon.

Zhyyra:

would you have any sources or references for me

The early works on understanding of Electric and magnetic fields.
For example https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gauss%27s_law

I am looking at the effect of gravity from photon entanglement.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Photonic_molecule

[JGarriga]

They never suffer. A single photon has no entropy. That's probably why I am allergic to it. :)

Aha, so we have to assume that single photons do not interact with its environment or ,otherwise , the interaction is in such a way that the profit is 100% equal to the loss...

It's not about the photon's interaction. It's about the atom/molecule/oscillator's interaction. Yes, photons interact, but a photon is not a system. The photon is a fundamental entity which can not be further broken into more constituents. The photon's energy (self) does not contribute to it's own disorder, it has no disorder. It is simply a packet of energy (quantum). It's that darn probability thing in a system dictated by what is called multiplicity. :)

IMO a photon is as fundamental as a drop is to water. The drop is not the water. It is just made of water. The relation between the superficial tension and the gravity establishes the amount (quantum) and the shape in which the transfer is done.
But in order to fill the drop the water flows continuously.
In the same way we are inhabitants of a universe of continuous energy that takes individual shapes to interact.
What we are trying to find (with our mechanical devices ) is the way to pierce the skin of that shapes to reach the sea of continuum energy, absorb it and bring it inside a particular shape.
We are trying to reach the birth of the drop.

[agor95]

JGarriga

Well put both the post texts, are in principle, going in the right direction IMO.

I would drop it down a notch and say the fundamental electric and magnetic potentials are to photons. As the photon is not the waves; but the ordered pattern of the waves.

Agreed we should keep in mind we want to get to the shape that will create a macro-scale Bessler wheel.

Regards

[IamAllergicToEntropy]

IMO a photon is as fundamental as a drop is to water.

A molecule in that analogy is more accurate to the photon than a drop of water. The rest is very metaphysical, very deep in meaning. I must think about this. Either way very good. :)

As the photon is not the waves; but the ordered pattern of the waves.

There is a saying in the wave-particle duality theory of physics; on Mondays, Wednesdays, and Fridays we use waves. On Tuesdays, Thursdays, and Saturdays we use particles.

[JGarriga]

There is a saying in the wave-particle duality theory of physics; on Mondays, Wednesdays, and Fridays we use waves. On Tuesdays, Thursdays, and Saturdays we use particles.

And on Sundays the Higgs boson :)

[agor95]

JGarriga

Good point/wave; If you use a wave checking monitor you detected waves then a particle checking monitor you detected particles.

Therefore following my 'Much Too Do About Nothing' in Off-Topic;
I choose waves as the fundamental form.

I also notice mathematics generate points, edges, infinities & absolutes.

So finding a way to implement mathematics so these are addressed would be
the way to go.

[agor95]

Zhyyra

I have been giving due consideration and recommend this interpretation.

A sphere appears distorting space outwards that the sphere now occupies.
Another sphere of the same size appears with twice the density.
Then another sphere with total density and same size.

Before all these appear space is equal and not flowing.
So no gravity around.

The first sphere is less dense so the inner-space is only push out to
outer-space partially like a net moving through water.

The twice density sphere distorts more.

The last sphere moves all inner-space to outer-space.

Now the flow from outer to inner space.


The fist displaced the least; however the flow is the greatest.
When the space is equalized the flow and gravity stops.

The twice dense displaces more space and the flow is slower.
So the flow takes longer until it stops.

The third displaces all the inner-space and it does not flow back.
There maybe a shock wave out put there is no flow/gravity.

Regards

[IamAllergicToEntropy]

So finding a way to implement mathematics so these are addressed would be
the way to go.

Trust me they are! :)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wave_equation classical representation
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schrödinger_equation quantum representation

[Zhyyra]

Hi agor95,

Thank you for your consideration

Sorry for not stating the following in the first post of the topic. I tried to edit and add to it today but, the time limit for editing the post has expired.

To me, inner space is as in (deep) as outer space is out (large), with both being equal to infinity.

(firsts post on the second page of this topic).

In my theory your first sphere will displace the least amount of space and flow will be continual but, of the least strength of your three spheres. Any displacement of space will result in an infinite flow because within the currently displaced region is an infinite amount of inner space for the continually displaced space to revert to. As long as there is a presence of mass (and therefore a displacement of space) the flow can not equalize and stop.

Your double-density second sphere will displace twice the amount of space (including inner-space) and therefore gravity will flow at twice the rate because twice the amount of space "seeks" its "state" that it had before displacement. Gravity will not flow toward the center of this mass slower as gravity is infinitely small and travels freely through all objects. The denser an object, the more inner-space it will displace.

Your third sphere scenario is not possible in my theory as it is not possible to displace all of the inner space from a region as inner space is infinite.

Regards.

[agor95]

Zhyyra

I agree with you the third sphere is an outer limit logic test.

Logic can go were reality fears too tread.

Regards

[IamAllergicToEntropy]

Hi Zhyyra. Perhap you should illustrate in a diagram of what you believe. That way you could research yourself the why and the how to the illusive nature of gravitation.
I myself done just that many decades ago. I did that because science hit a road block and could not get beyond Einstein. I broke down everything I could think of. If gravity was simply space? If gravity was a field? If gravity was a gas? If gravity was like light? Even a material? Then with each of THOSE suppositions, than HOW with the present knowledge of physics could the behavior of all those ideas really work? It is not at all easy. If is was, we would probably have space automobiles, moon bases... :)

[Zhyyra]

Funny you should suggest an illustration at this time IATE. I have been thinking of doing just that. Now I am even more eager. I will probably have to meditate on it for a few days before I'm happy with an idea though. Then I will have to go the whole hog and make it a 3d scenario in Turbocad or Blender. Nothings quick in my life at the moment but, a grand suggestion from you nonetheless, thank you :-)