A 60second Enlightenment...the Principle Motion behind Everything?

[Gill Simo]

agor95...somewhere above I mentioned moving my mouse pointer in a circle. .after more careful consideration however it became clear to me that I simply need to drag my pointer diagonally,from one corner to another, through the centre of the tetra, to achieve the desired turning/twisting motion.
At this point I'd like to be asking if it is possible for you to somehow automate that pointer movement to your graphic to come up with an animated loop that can be repeated.
However...what one see's depends on where one starts....meaning I assume that what one see's depends on the angle it's viewed from.

This presents a problem....starting with let's say, three spheres at the rear, one in front sat centrally on the three...this will twist/turn to the opposite situation...three at the front, one at the rear...and back again to complete the cycle.
Starting with two at the rear, two at the front at right angles to them...this will twist/turn to two at the rear, two at the front, now both moved through 90 degree...in other words, two at the front if horizontal twist to two at the rear vertical, for instance.

Although you assert that the Tri-Lobed Disc cannot perform the task I'm suggesting of it...literally...in truth therefore, though I know not how, I remain convinced that it can....but it can only do so in a specific way. It may be two front/two back, it may be three to one, it may be anything between for all I know...& there's the problem, I don't know...not for sure...unlike yourself perhaps, I'm yet to be that enlightened.

So...whilst a looped animation of this would be a joy & a relief to see, it really needs to be seen face on, straight along the axle line, in order for me, you I must suggest, or anyone else to then be able to assess the placement of two discs on that axle..

If you were able to run a diagonal through your graphic & capture the resulting motion then I'd have to opt for the 3/1 start & finish...I feel it holds a slight advantage, for reasons I'm too tired to offer right now....and I'm certainly too tired to grasp why I must drag my pointer across one diagonal to effect 2vs2, the other diagonal to effect 3vs1?


Thanks/Gill

[agor95]

Hi Gill

I will think on your request; animation is possible.

The purpose of the gift is to allow you to screen shot what movement you want.
you can screen shot and post using the 'Gift'

It is trying mentally rotating and describing this axle rotation in text form.

I place the image of the Tri-Lobed Disc for member to review.

[Gill Simo]

agor95...I'd love to snapshot away although I'll probably find myself to dumb to understand the instructions...but I can't view either of your offerings at the moment, nor the link at your profile...been that way for over24hrs now. Any idea why please?

[agor95]

Thank you for letting me know. It is a cheep web server.

Let me have a look.

However I had a play today following my instructions and your request.

It came to me the pyramid tea bags are really tetrahedral and follow the rule
of sealing a tube along the bottom then sealing the top at 90 degrees.

I also understand your idea of two spheres over the Tri-Lobed Disc would rock as they rotate over the Tri-Lobed disc. Therefore another Tri-Lobed Disc active as a lid would complement the base disc.

I am thinking the camera position in the Gift is not landscape but at an angle.
I will check after kick starting the web server.

I have included the image to help understand the two lower spheres interacting with the Tri-Lobed Disc.

Naturally the top spheres are at 90 degrees from the tetrahedra or should I say Tetley hedra [uk joke - inventors of the pyramid tea bag after PG invented the flat round tea bag - wars have started for less :-)]

Note. This image is the only plan view of the Tri-Lobed Disc available to me.
We could use more for modelling purposes.

Regards

[agor95]

Steampunk website has been kicked - and it is working.

Regards

[ME]

Hi ME

This is your improved version that has been published on steampunk.

https://steampunks.ddns.net/tetrahedra_me.html

Thanks, for putting the [offline] version online.
It's just missing that crucial addition of the buttons. Should be there for Gill Simo to select each position and as such verify the correctness of the animation [here] and compare them with his provided 6 frames in his opening post.
Attached the screenshots of a study in progress.


As with all information: Discoverability is key! So isn't it a good idea to put an index on your homepage in order to easily discover all the publications, like this new one?

[cloud camper]

OK - we seem to have a good idea what this thing looks like now.

Maybe it's time now for someone to form a hypotheses how this arrangement could generate self perpetuation.

No one seems to want to talk about it.

For me what I see is a balanced arrangement that is already at it's lowest COM if the three spheres are resting initially on the ground.

What possible physics would cause this arrangement to rotate?

For any physical object to move unbalanced forces are required. Think of directional wind, water or muscle forces..

How does this arrangement generate the unbalanced forces that would cause it to move?

If we purchase four beachballs and crazyglue them together is it going to flop around in the front yard? Is this a valid test?

And how do you cram a number of these things inside a 4" wide wheel?

[agor95]

Thanks, for putting the [offline] version online.

It's just missing that crucial addition of the buttons.
Should be there for Gill Simo to select each position and as such verify the correctness of the animation [here] and compare them with his provided 6 frames in his opening post.
Attached the screenshots of a study in progress.

As with all information: Discoverability is key! So isn't it a good idea to put an index on your homepage in order to easily discover all the publications, like this new one?

You should see the buttons the next time you select the site.

If you do not then I will P.M. you the solution.

The Steampunk helper site uses this site to give the links context and indexing.

Members can click on the image to see what they should see when using the 'Gift'.

[agor95]

OK - we seem to have a good idea what this thing looks like now.

Thank you for complimenting Gill and ME for their contributions.

Maybe it's time now for someone to form a hypotheses how this arrangement could generate self perpetuation.

No one seems to want to talk about it.

As this is Gill's thread I will give first call to the owner.

And how do you cram a number of these things inside a 4" wide wheel?

I see this Enlightenment as an implementation post Bessler product were the 2d wheel
principle is implemented in 3d space.

[agor95]

The attached diagram of the Vesica Piscis shows the rectangle required, in white...a double square.

I wanted to bring this image into the thread as it has played a part in Gill's thinking for many years.

[agor95]

When I look at a contribution I ask some basic questions.

1. Will it move in a balanced way?

2. Will it develop asymetry when it is moving to continue moving?

3. Can this be explained?

4. Can it be proved mathematically?

5. Can it be proved by computer simulation to produce a significant positive output?

6. Can it be built?

[Gill Simo]

really must thank all again for your input...'cos I'm getting a sense that others are thinking about it & for years now I've begged little else...
A sense that upon thinking about it you are becoming aware of the character of the thing....I have my 32yr old son's baby rattle... a sucker, a stem, a Perspex globe & four glitter balls bunched inside...it ain't, on the face of it, rocket science.
Yet here we are, scratching our heads somewhat, about something as simple as moving the four glitter balls around...like a one year old!
As ever this slippery wee eel offers insight in a frustrating fashion....you ask of it a question & the answer comes by way of more questions posed back to you. It's been thus from the very start & will no doubt be thus to conclusion.
So...thanks be I now have some balls to play with & having played for a short while I've managed to confirm what I imagined pretty much...but I've got things that I hadn't imagined...requiring a good deal of playing/thinking before ever grasping, no doubt.
One has to assume that everything I'm considering must eventually prove to be nothing more than a load of balls...but if nothing else it will hopefully provide a good example of what I've always argued as needed.....something very, very, simple...yet all the more illusive for it....the nature of the beast must be grasped & this proposal expresses that nature.

Put simply...Gravity cannot be tricked/fooled but the mind most certainly can...& my logic suggests to look to the latter for any joker in the pack.

[Gill Simo]

cloud camper....
"No one seems to want to talk about it"
I'm only too happy to talk about it but with trepidation, brought on by the circumstance I mention directly above..there's so much that I want to pass on for consideration...where to start & how to ever finish? And all of it I can assure...just as simple & just as mentally knot tying as that baby rattle upon closer inspection.
Whatever else it's gonna need a good deal of time/effort on my part I fear & I'm all but bereft of both at the moment.
It is about time I offered some theory or other in support...for sure. and I will asap...hopefully addressing all your points & more beside.
In the meanwhile... any further points/questions/observations from your good self or others can also be addressed in addition so please...fire away!

[Gill Simo]

agor95...thank you for much but here a particular thank you for bringing the Vesica Piscis into mind.
I keep finding myself wishing to emphasis the `Path` that I've trodden...trodden because there has never occurred a reason to stop, always good reason to carry on.
On the door that opened onto that path was the Vesica Piscis and....although few, if any, can see it, this here doesn't so much have VP stamped all over it...it IS the Vesica Piscis.
Things are complicated enough already & I'm tired....so I'm not going to even attempt to justify/show this fact.
For now I just want to confirm that the path remains unwavering and take the opportunity to repeat that which I've stated too many times now over the years.
The Vesica Piscis is likely to be exactly what it was revered to be in the past....the Giver...the Source...the Creator.
And the geometry that stems from it is therefore likely to be the blueprint for its Creation...thus also exactly as it was revered to be...Sacred.
This proposal is not about unbalancing a wheel on an axle...it's about an understanding of the construct of this energetic/physical 3D Realm...an understanding that makes the unbalancing of a wheel on an axle a piece of piss, rather than our current understanding ...that makes it impossible.
Please consider...Bessler states quite clearly that his wheel is easily replicated...a simple build...so simple that he's embarrassed/concerned in asking a price for it. But nowhere does he state that it's simple to understand the physics involved....even he seems only able to state that there's a Principle motion...that before his eyes...& that it perpetuates due to `some theory of excess weight`.
A Principle motion but no Principle to that motion's persistence...only some theory...his ideas. Remember...this fella was just as likely to sit under a tree, take an apple to the head & get to wondering as to why, as Mr Newton...I doubt the implications of this true 3D Reality would have sprung to mind as he tried to reason with his find....for Bessler, God was an easier way of reconciling with it....and though few here can digest that word...that's very much a legitimate way to do so.

[Gill Simo]

agor95.....maybe a visit to the Thingiverse site?
There's some photo's & stuff...and downloadable 3d print files.
No idea if that'd be of any use/advantage to you?

https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:2491126