Energy creation

[Johndoe2]

I think most people on this site believe that energy can be created. If this is the case where does the energy come from and what does this mean for modern physics on all levels ( including quantum ) .

I was thinking about this recently and was thinking that this energy comes from the higher energy state to the lower emergy state specifically the difference between the 2. So it is not the actual creation but the specific energy is transfered from the higher state element to the lower state element on a quantum level similar to water seekinh its own level.

Does this make sense or is their a more likely source.

[justsomeone]

I personally don't believe that energy can be created but I am not closing that door completely. I do whole heartedly believe that gravity can be used as an energy source.

[thx4]

All the energy is already created, but the exploitable potential is infinite...
Nothing to do with what we are dealing with here, the different methods of exploiting gravitic force have yet to be discovered. A sailboat moves forward by the force of the wind, but if you remove its keel, it does what we are doing here today :)

[sleepy]

Since you asked, I believe gravity is the energy source and I am attempting to change gravity into motion, much like changing motion into electricity.

[agor95]

I think most people on this site believe that energy can be created.

Can the 'most people', who ever you are, post they believe the statement above?

[Fletcher]

FWIW ... Energy in its various forms reduces to units of Joules.

Force x Displacement/Distance also reduces to the same units of Joules.

Therefore in terms of our understanding of Mechanics and Newtonian Physics (and the Math to explain it) they are interchangeable, or put another way, can be substituted, with impunity. Or that there is complete symmetry. No exceptions have been proven to exist AFAIK. This is what is behind the Work Energy Equivalence Principle (WEEP) or Work Equivalence Principle of Physics.

So to answer Johndoe2's question I don't believe energy can be created. Therefore the Law of CoE remains intact as far as I'm aware.

But it raises a problem in terms of Bessler's Wheels, if they were true gravity force enabled PM wheels, that I can't explain or reduce to energy terms (Joules In and Out).

Yet they must have both consumed and produced energy/work to self-rotate and do external work.

Therefore I can only conclude in most general terms that WEEP is not inviolate for some circumstances of nature.

And that in some mechanical arrangements subject to gravity force, altho gravity is conservative, the arrangement can actually preform useful work and restore its GPE and replenish its motion.

IOW's the Laws of Physics can not currently explain how a 'true gravity enabled Bessler PM wheel' could either exist or 'create' energy.

But don't let the lack of scientific rationality stop us from building a working gravity wheel. Bessler knew the arguments too (in terms of his times), but still sought it all the same, and claimed to have built more than one, with a bit of lateral thinking.

[Johndoe2]

I agree Fletcher. I think gravity is similar to light. I believe I've even read that it is possibly a form of electromagnetic radiation.

A similar idea occured to me that a light powered machine that , stored the energy in batteries could be considered perpetual motion IF it was able to store the energy efficiently enough to maintain the motion through the times when light was not available ( or even go into hibernation and resume once it's power source was again available)?

Either way science:

[Georg Künstler]

Hi Fletcher,
I think that the gravity force can be tricked.

As I have explained in the other thread we only need the speed difference of the mass.

Maybe we can compare it when you walk on an escalator.
When you walk upwards on an upwards moving escalator you feel to work heavier. You add two speeds.

Depending on the speed of the escalator you can feel 2g.

What is blocking us to create a working wheel is that you have to be faster than this 9,81 on the downgoing side of the wheel.

Faster than 9,81 will make a small weight heavier.
All attempts with a small wheel will fail, because you cannot generate the necessary speed difference.

When you had a look to Alemania Besslers description, then She/he accelerates the small weight so it is faster than this 9,81

The fast small weight can then lift the heavy weight.
So it is only an clever arrangement, and the wheel will run.

Maybe to understand better, we generate an artificial gravity with the speed difference of the weights.

[ovyyus]

There's no reason to believe that energy can be created, or that such a thing might be connected to Bessler's secret. Although, 'reason to believe' is probably an oxymoron.

[raj]

Thank you Fletcher,

I admire your reasoning!

On June 22 2011 I posted this drawing on this forum, and I had little or no reply.

We have two identical wheels each showing clockwise rotation 45 degrees from balance position, with one weight falling in clockwise direction and one weight rising on the counter clockwise direction.
This is and example of P.E lost = P.E gained. That is no work done.

YET one wheel has gained TORQUE.

For the past 10 years, I am trying to build a wheel that can prove this concept.

I think I am almost there.

Raj

[agor95]

The best I can do is to say.

The Energy that exists was created in the big bag event.

We can convert energy from one form to another, but this always balances.

There maybe energy that exists we have not got access to like the theoretical
Zero Point Energy.

The two fields are electric and magnetic. These induce, do work, to distort the other.

C.F. and Gravity are effects and inertia is cause by induction see above.

So were does that leave us and the Bessler Wheel?

Agreed it should not stop use trying.

[Fletcher]

I have reason to believe Raj .. that if you get time and read ME's excellent topic and thread below, you will get some benefit from it in terms of narrowing your search criteria.

"The Importance of Raising Weights"

http://www.besslerwheel.com/forum/viewt ... 375#134375

It explains the relationship between raising a weight (giving it GPE) and the torque generated by the lateral displacement about a fulcrum pivot.

Best of luck as always.

I think that the gravity force can be tricked.

I have reason to believe Georg .. that saying gravity can be 'tricked' will prove essentially a correct if not short summary.

All the best.

[agor95]

Raj

I also request you read your replies on 'KE PE and torque effect?' thread.

[Johndoe2]

Unfortunately in my experience Georg this does not work.
It may be possible but I think it will be more trouble than it's worth IMHO.

[Johndoe2]

The problem is that trying to add energy via acceleration has the main issues that must be overcome (imo) 1 counter torque, 2 timing , control of excess energy to be harvested or fed back into the wheel.

Now is there other ways to accomplish this I suppose so but I suspect the problems will be similar .

I doubt seriously if this was bessler idea as I believe his wheels accelerated slowly and smoothly without assistance ( uni directional)
And for the bi directional wheel with a slight push.