Clem Engine

[Dave]

Ralph
I agree with your assessment of the Clem engine. I believe that it should be looked into, especially with the fuel situation today.
Thanks for the offer and I will get with you.
Dave

[ken_behrendt]

Ralph...

Yes, a high pressure motor will continue to run momentarily after the pump supplying it is shut off. This is known as a "hydraulic pressure transient" and analogs of it are seen in other systems as well. However, there is no energy gain taking place. Just previously compressed fluids in the supply lines momentarily driving the motor.


When people try to research inventions like the Clem engine I have noted a definite pattern in their efforts. Firstly, they find an abundance of what I call "lower level" information. This consists of newspaper and magazine articles, tv news segments, and the like. One learns next to nothing about the device from these except that it is claimed that it is doing something novel or nearly miraculous.

This "information" then stimulates a few of the more curious to probe deeper for more "higher level" information. This can involve attending demonstrations by the inventor, attempts to telephone or correspond with the inventor in an effort to get a few more "inside" tidbits about the "secret" of the invention, and trying to find patents/photographs/film/videos of the invention in the hope that the inventor, in a moment of weakness, may have revealed "too much". These efforts are usually a waste of time.

In every case like this that I have heard of, the curious wind up completely frustrated. Then...along comes the next miracle invention by someone else and the cycle begins anew!

I do not waste my precious and limited supply of time and energy on such pursuits. If someone has a real, workable invention, then there really is no reason why it can not be tested and verified to be so by some reputable group, independent of the inventor, that has the facilities to do the testing.

If all of these devices over the decades were, in fact, truly workable, then I am confident that we would be using them now. The fact that we are not using them now speaks volumes about them...

ken

[Vic Hays]

An engine like the Clem engine would not likely produce OU even if there were no friction involved. A hydraulic system such as the cone shaped or bell shaped turbine would have a tremendous amount of drag and frictional loss. Even if that drag were to drive the turbine such as the Tesla turbine by drag, there would be a large amount of that drag becoming heat. This Clem turbine engine has no way of harnessing heat energy so it would be lost. I would have to say that the chances of it working are not good at all.

[ovyyus]

Vic, no one knows how Clem's motor worked. I think heat was involved in it's operation though - apparently the oil ran very hot.

I seem to remember Clem reporting that he was inspired by a hot bitumen pump and the time it took for it to stop after being turned off and cooling down. That might imply that expanding/contracting hot/cold viscous fluid is somehow involved?

[rlortie]

Ken,

Once again I find your comments repetitive and contradictory.

I do not waste my precious and limited supply of time and energy on such pursuits. If someone has a real, workable invention, then there really is no reason why it can not be tested and verified to be so by some reputable group, independent of the inventor, that has the facilities to do the testing.

If all of these devices over the decades were, in fact, truly workable, then I am confident that we would be using them now. The fact that we are not using them now speaks volumes about them...

If you in fact live by what you have stated above then why do you spend so much time posting almost daily, a new possible answer to Bessler's wheel. What is the difference here that eludes me between Bessler and Clem??? I do believe that you are so possessed by Bessler that you have so much Bias or predilection in you that there is no room for a discerning mind.

Yes, a high pressure motor will continue to run momentarily after the pump supplying it is shut off. This is known as a "hydraulic pressure transient" and analogs of it are seen in other systems as well. However, there is no energy gain taking place. Just previously compressed fluids in the supply lines momentarily driving the motor.

High Pressure motor will continue to run after supply pump is shut off! Then what will happen if you do not shut off the supply pump? It is connected to the motor.

I did not state that any energy gain was taking place during the transient pressure equalization. Obviously this is the pressure as well as the kinetic force of the moving oil to stay moving.

Vic and Bill,

Any time that you pressurize a liquid you produce heat and I know that both of you are smart enough to know that. Yes Clems engine would produce heat just as the torque convertor in you automobiles automatic transmission does. This is why most vehicles are equipped with a transmission cooler either mounted in front of the radiator or an intrinsic part of the radiator. I feel safe to say that Clems engine design (note, I am not saying working design) would yes indeed produce a lot of heat especially if it built up to 500 or better PSI.

As for the bitumen pump, I do not see any need for such high pressure. Hot yes, but I think the time for the pump to stop can be explained by the density of the hot oil and kinetic force. I am sure that the pump was turned off before closing the valve which would have allowed the flow to continue for a short duration. THis would occur pumping hot or cold oil.

What I write here is not set in concrete, I do not claim to know all the answers or the questions. My statements are meant as food for thought only.

Ralph

[ken_behrendt]

Ralph, you wrote:

If you in fact live by what you have stated above then why do you spend so much time posting almost daily, a new possible answer to Bessler's wheel. What is the difference here that eludes me between Bessler and Clem??? I do believe that you are so possessed by Bessler that you have so much Bias or predilection in you that there is no room for a discerning mind.

Actually, I do not post a "new" approach to Bessler's wheel every day. Rather, I am usually either running test simulations or making minor modifications to a current design I am pursuing. I try to avoid finding a new approach until I have more or less exhausted the current one I am exploring. This can be a slow and tedious process and, to prevent boredom, I'll read other threads and see if anybody has anything interesting that they are presenting. One never knows if something they see or read on another thread may trigger some new ideas of one's own.

The difference between Bessler and Clem is that Bessler's invention was rigorously examined by some very intelligent and skeptical people and was approved by them as being genuine. Has Clem's engine been tested in a similar fashion?

Yes, I am obsessed to a degree with Bessler because I kind of view him as the Father of the Free Energy subject. I want to know more about him and his inventions and, most importantly, I want to be able to duplicate his inventions. Pursuing a claimed automotive invention will not, I am sure, do anything to enhance my chances of solving the Bessler mystery.

ken

[Wheeler]

I am sure that the pump was turned off before closing the valve which would have allowed the flow to continue for a short duration. THis would occur pumping hot or cold

This is true.
It is the physics of how caulk continues out of the tube after you set it down.
After using the grease gun on the back hoe, you can watch it run.
I think maybe the Clem engine was indeed a time delay calk gun at best, however I would love to test the idea, and see if it could be combined with the Sterling engine physics

[Ed]

Yes, I am obsessed to a degree with Bessler because I kind of view him as the Father of the Free Energy subject. I want to know more about him and his inventions and, most importantly, I want to be able to duplicate his inventions.

So how's that reading of AP and DT coming then?

-Ed

[Dave]

Ken
I agree with some of your comments but if people didn't look into things some ideas would not be discovered. The zipper and ball point pen were not commercialized by the inventor only by someone else over 15 years later.
Read the Clem article again, it was supposedly tested by Bendix. There were a number of witnesses.
There are lots of ideas out there that can save enery on all fronts but industry and/or government dont want to put the up front money, at least until oil gets to $100/bbl. They got to get the green first. Some ideas can be implemented on your own.

[rlortie]

Dave,

I do not know how deep into CLems engine you are. Are you attempting to build one or just researching at this time?

Either way I believe there is a discrepancy in the explanation found at
http://www3.sympatico.ca/slavek.krepelk ... myclem.htm
and Bernoullis Principle.

The spiral tapered jets is not correct. For centrifugal force to have any effect one must enlarge these tubes just before nozzle. While under kinetic force created by centrifugal force the liquid must be allowed to increase in volume decreasing velocity. This in turn is converted back to velocity at nozzle which is spinning rotor to create its own feed pressure.

Once high rpm is achieved the feed pump is not utilized or necessary. The spinning Bernoulli tubes create there own suction.

A simple example of this can be found at Grand Coulee Dam in the state of Washington. During off peak power demands, water flows through a turbine and into a Bernoulli draft tube. the turbine powers a generator that energizes pumps to pump the used water plus surplus water back up into the reservoir. This water is then used for irrigation and power generation as needed.

Ralph

[jim_mich]

During off peak power demands, water flows through a turbine and into a Bernoulli draft tube. the turbine powers a generator that energizes pumps to pump the used water plus surplus water back up into the reservoir. This water is then used for irrigation and power generation as needed.

Ralph, your above statement seems to say that more water can be pumped up into the reservoir than flows down through the turbine and Bernoulli draft tube? Could you elaborate on this giving more detail. By any chance do you have any personal experiance, knowledge, or background concerning this? Thanks in advance.

[ken_behrendt]

Ed wrote:

So how's that reading of AP and DT coming then?

Unfortunately, I have not gotten around to studying the original documents. I know I will eventually have to because there might be just one line somewhere in them that would jump out at me and be the critical clue I need to succeed where so many others have failed.

I'm still hurting from the medical costs my mercury problem created for me and the recent spike of gasoline prices in the USA to the $3+ USD range per gallon of regular is not helping one bit. When I get some extra bucks, I'll contact John and arrange for some downloads of what he's got...



Well, I do not know what to make of this Clem engine business. Yes, I suppose it's worth looking into. I went through something similar a decade or so ago that involved an electric car that Tesla supposedly built.

According to the newspaper accounts, Tesla arranged with a car company to test his new method of powering an automobile. On the day of the test he arrived with a mysterious wooden box which had two handles coming out of its sides. He then took the power cables that were attached to the car's electric motor and connected them to his mysterious box. Next, he adjusted some knobs on the box and a gauge on the car's dashboard indicated that the car's electric motor was receiving sufficient voltage.

The accelerator pedal was pressed and Tesla along with some engineers from the company then proceeded to drive at top speed around a test track. They did this for an hour or so until the test was concluded!

The box Tesla brought with him was not a battery, but, rather, some sort of sophisticated system of antennae and capacitors that could tune in on the electromagnetic waves that exist between the surface of the Earth and the ionosphere and then convert them into a high power electrical output at the terminals attached to the wooden box.

The invention was hailed by the press as "revolutionary" and one that would solve all of our fuel problems. I think the date of the test was 1930. Well, Tesla eventually died in poverty in New York City in 1945. His mysterious invention was not patented and no records of it could be found. Supposedly, he left a trunk full of papers to the hotel in lieu of the payment of his rent, but know one seems to know what became of that trunk or its contents.

So, here is another perfect example of what I was discussing above. We have a mysterious inventor and a miraculous invention. The device is tested and appears to be producing a real effect. Then, for some reason, it never comes into widespread use and, finally, disappears from the scene along with the inventor.

Investigating cases like this helped to eventually cure me of my need to follow every invention that comes down the pike in the FE/OU field...

ken

[rlortie]

Jim_mich,

Ralph, your above statement seems to say that more water can be pumped up into the reservoir than flows down through the turbine and Bernoulli draft tube? Could you elaborate on this giving more detail. By any chance do you have any personal experiance, knowledge, or background concerning this? Thanks in advance

.

First, for all that is interested in this topic, I remind you that a pump sucking works by atmospheric pressure. This means that no centrifugal pump can suck more than 27 feet at sea level. Your vacuum cleaner falls into this same category.

On the other hand a pump can push water uphill governed only by its size and energy source, such as horsepower rating of motor.

I spent 20+ years at McNary Dam which is considerably down river from Grand Coulee. We did not recycle the water as above described. I do have the knowledge and experience to explain that water is fed into a turbine by gravity. upon its exit it flows into a Bernoulli draft tube which expands the volume thus creating a higher velocity.

THe higher velocity can only be achieved by sucking the water through the turbine. So now you have gravity pushing and inertia pulling for a two fold force on the turbine.

I do not have first hand working knowledge that Grand Coulee is capable of Pumping more water than expended in the process, but I do know that at McNary their are two small service generators for project use and excitation of 14 80 Megawatt main generators. One of these service generators produces enough power to not only run and light a mile long dam but also runs three GE 5320 horsepower synchronous pump motors for the purpose of attracting Salmon to guide them into the fish ladders. One of these pump Motors is twice the physical size of the service generator running all three. The lift on these pumps are minimal as they are meant to create a current only.

This action does create extremely high cavitation that requires periodic rebuilding of the turbine blades using stainless steel patch plates Mig welded with stainless wire and then ground smooth.

Here is two links, for McNary and Coulee, you may find interesting and my lead you further into this subject.

http://users.owt.com/chubbard/gcdam/
http://www.cqs.washington.edu/crisp/hydro/mcn.html

Ralph

[Dave]

After attempting to get additional information on the Clem engine from Keelynet without a significant reply, I believe that there is sufficient and conflicting evidence from the pictures and the written information that the Keelynet story on the Clem engine is suspect. I had hoped to open a diaolog to examine further the claims and story presented by Keelynet.

[Stewart]

Hi Dave

I think the Clem engine is very interesting. I followed the posts on Keelynet when it was being talked about a few years ago. I've attached two PDFs that you might find helpful. One is of an investigation of the Clem engine by Robert Koontz, and the other is a patent for the conical drag pump that Clem got the idea for his engine from. I hope they help with your research.

Regards,
Stewart

The first PDF was too big for upload, so I have uploaded to another website....

Investigation of the Clem engine - by Robert Koontz - Click Here