Besslers wheel just a perfect illusion?

[FunWithGravity2]

Hey there Fletcher

Sorry I got lost for a few weeks and forgot about Bessler and his wheel. I do thoroughly enjoy reading your posts though and glad i stumbled back in.

IMHO all of it is fog or white noise. Its impossible to see or hear anything intelligible from most of it. I try to stumble through the fog and anything that i can grab onto i tug at it a little. If it wavers or seems ambiguous i discard it and move on. Through out the years i made just as many vague associations as everyone and convinced myself over and over that this or that matched exactly to whatever i was doing. Then I realized I had to look at only the things I could believe in with with some certainty.

Like what you ask.

Witness statements of sounds and ambiguous assumptions of what they saw, warped boards and the like are worthless. But the size of the wheel well that within reason is something i can say is mostly 90% correct so i can put that in the file of things that are certain.

How many bangs were heard or what it could lift. What the axle looked like or how heavy it must have been are far to vague for me to grasp and say for certain, but the speed of the wheels well that was something that i could grasp and hold onto and it seemed that at least that was within reason to expect people to be able to be certain about.

There are others but for now that is great. I had size and speed. Seemed like some pretty concrete information that was rock solid. So why not force those parameters into all the hypotheticals. How many times do we hear someone say "i solved it" but its different, it will run faster or slower etc etc. Nope not my path so I won't be led astray.

Then how about the Bessler clues. Well IMHO 99% of them are ambiguous and the very second you can interpret it more than one way it must be discarded. There are only a few in my mind that are close enough to 90% surety of meaning that i could use them to define designs. But that is more than enough to help narrow the field quickly I think.


Hopefully I will get some more time in the next few weeks before Spring is upon us in the Northeastern US and I'll be back to see how things are around here before the summer arrives.

I look forward to a day when we can share a beverage laugh about the wheel and the journey through the years at Besslerwheel.com

Best to all

Crazy Dave

[Fletcher]

Cheers Dave .. I'm glad someone actually enjoys reading some of my posts lol. Almost makes them worthwhile writing but you probably don't want to encourage me *grin*. Actually I find the writing process usually clarifies some of my thinking, so has benefits both ways, if they're not complete rubbish.

And I too look forward to the day when we can meet up and have a few beers, and laugh about our shared experiences here at BW.com, whose come and gone, and our builds and ideas. I think we might laugh (or cry into our beer if so inclined) more heartily after a working Bessler type gravity wheel has been discovered and demonstrated. Then the circle of context would be complete and we could see at a glance if we were even on the same planet as the solution or not. Hopefully that day isn't too far away.

Maybe suncitydave's gathering in Florida will be the start of something, or at least some real connection and sharing of the burden beyond the keyboard. I know I used to enjoy when I worked in a team of two with Rainer (Tinhead). Grabbed moments for coffee, cigarettes, whiteboard, and talk up a storm trying to sell each other the latest idea to explore. We were good sounding boards for each other and reality checks were the norm. Valuable feedback because we viewed it as one failed idea closer to a working solution. To bad circumstances changed and I went to Fiji and he went back to civilian life, clever guy lol.

Anyways, this gravity engine solution will be solved by critical thinking, rather than correctly interpreting a raft of word/mind games. The majority will make some kind of sense or connection in hindsight. And that starts by as you have done nailing down fact from fiction and speculation. I tend to let all JB's clues swirl around in my back of my head and let the subconscious filter the good from the bad and the ugly.

If critical thinking and objective clues is your thang, then here is a good one to add to your to do list. Bessler's one-way wheels had to be tied down (in any position). And because they had positive torque, even when stopped, when released immediately accelerated up to working speed (rpm).

Go well Dave until the next time.

[FunWithGravity2]

Hey Fletcher.

Logged back on again(within 24 hrs LOL) to see if you had a chance to read my dribble. I had written that same thing in my previous post, but because id did not want to be vague or answer the "why" form others i declined to include it.

The most important and simplest of all the facts is just that. The one way wheel had to be held and had torque at that time. Far more helpful than acrobats and hammer men. But not as easy for most to fit into their design.

I have family enjoying retirement if Florida but I won't be able to attend Florida Dave's get together. Hope they enjoy themselves and i wish them well.

I would venture to bet that Fiji is an easy distraction. If you hear of an obnoxious Yankee wandering about looking for you one day it might just be me. I find more reasons daily to escape this continent.

Crazy Dave

[Art]

Hi ovaron .. it sure is a frustrating and fascinating hobby we all have. We have to balance our lives, be productive, and then in our spare time we invite failure and frustration, and our mind battles, to be our companions. What sane person would do that to themselves lol. It must be the mystery and need to know that drives us on. To solve the puzzle, or find the treasure analogies, providing you can keep the energy levels topped up to see it thru. The Bessler wheel feels a bit like 'Forrest Fenns treasure', is it still there to find, was it ever there at all, is someone pulling my chain with an elaborate ruse for their own amusement ?

Some like Raj, Mr V, and Ralph go their own way, developing their own ideas, taking little cognisance of the written information about Bessler and his story. Well I guess even Bessler must have put one foot in front of the other in the early days of his journey to destination then unknown. He did read up on others and their attempts at PM tho.

Others like me believe he left a map of sorts. This is within his various books, with so called clues etc. Not so much a linear follow the path treasure map to 'X' marks the spot, but imo more of a spacial mapping of his journey and his mechanical prize. You might think of it as more of a 3D map with some snakes and ladders for good measure. Tough but doable.

To that end I place far greater importance in the unpublished MT (John Collins), and witness statements, and a lesser importance to JB's other published works, which imo have another higher agenda to inform, entertain, refute, and befuddle.

IMO Bessler wasn't an illusionist, he certainly wasn't a phantom. He was a real and well documented person who built and demonstrated some machines. I believe his machines were the real deal. If so you wouldn't be able to get your money back by claiming he contravened the Consumers Guarantee Act citing not fit for purpose or misleading advertising.

FWIW Bessler finally knew the standard OOB wheel answer was always wrong, and why, and finally knew the correct question to ask instead of going straight to the answer. He said he found it where others had looked which is an obvious mind trap to the wrong answer, tho his solution must have a strong physical resemblance to the tried and failed, imo. And so that we don't have to reinvent the wheel (excuse the pun) and search blindly, he mentors us thru his various books, albeit from behind a veil.

ATEOTD we are a community, it is a place to share the load, experiences, opinions, get excited, get disappointed, perhaps stamp your feet, maybe once in a while get some valuable feedback, or mentor someone else. All in all a place to hang out without too much judgement for the sins of your hobby.

Hey Fletcher - very cool that you would mention the Forrest Fenn treasure hunt - I go out a couple times a year as an excuse for a motorcycle adventure.





I do a three day ride and camp every year in northwest Colorado sort of casually geared to the Forrest Fenn treasure hunt. The ridemaster is a high school history teacher and explores the history of the area which today includes Dinosaur National Monument.

The first pic is looking down at the Yampa River in the park and the second is a cave on the river found with a pick axe buried in the rock wall.

The ridemaster is convinced the treasure is buried in the area and has a good rationale on this thread at the bottom of page 5:

https://advrider.com/f/threads/forrest- ... e.1086373/

Some very rough country to hide the treasure but a fun excuse for a ride!

Hi Cloud Camper ,

Skratchy Quote (from your link above ) :-

"Interesting article in Outside magazine this month: "

http://www.outsideonline.com/2005391/fo ... re-hunters .

----

The article is by Peter Frick-Wright about a Forrest Fenn treasure hunter called Darrell Seyler.

I found myself hoping at the end of the article that nobody else could be so hard hearted as to find that treasure before him .

That treasure means as much to Darrell as Bessler's does to us !

I think actually I wouldn't be surprised if I found Darrell actually would join this forum if he knew about it . He would fit right in ! except that he would have to learn to let less of his secrets out :)

So Cloud Camper I hope you had a good time on your trip , but don't tell me you found the FF treasure - because I deliberately didn't announce finding the Bessler treasure so that you would have something to come back to : )


I particularly like Peter Frick-Wright's final sentence in the article :-

"Snow whips past the window in a silent blur. Darrell sits on the edge of the bed , searching for himself ."


It would be nice to think he found himself safely .

[Fletcher]

Hi ovaron .. it sure is a frustrating and fascinating hobby we all have. We have to balance our lives, be productive, and then in our spare time we invite failure and frustration, and our mind battles, to be our companions. What sane person would do that to themselves lol. It must be the mystery and need to know that drives us on. To solve the puzzle, or find the treasure analogies, providing you can keep the energy levels topped up to see it thru. The Bessler wheel feels a bit like 'Forrest Fenns treasure', is it still there to find, was it ever there at all, is someone pulling my chain with an elaborate ruse for their own amusement ?

Some like Raj, Mr V, and Ralph go their own way, developing their own ideas, taking little cognisance of the written information about Bessler and his story. Well I guess even Bessler must have put one foot in front of the other in the early days of his journey to destination then unknown. He did read up on others and their attempts at PM tho.

Others like me believe he left a map of sorts. This is within his various books, with so called clues etc. Not so much a linear follow the path treasure map to 'X' marks the spot, but imo more of a spacial mapping of his journey and his mechanical prize. You might think of it as more of a 3D map with some snakes and ladders for good measure. Tough but doable.

To that end I place far greater importance in the unpublished MT (John Collins), and witness statements, and a lesser importance to JB's other published works, which imo have another higher agenda to inform, entertain, refute, and befuddle.

IMO Bessler wasn't an illusionist, he certainly wasn't a phantom. He was a real and well documented person who built and demonstrated some machines. I believe his machines were the real deal. If so you wouldn't be able to get your money back by claiming he contravened the Consumers Guarantee Act citing not fit for purpose or misleading advertising.

FWIW Bessler finally knew the standard OOB wheel answer was always wrong, and why, and finally knew the correct question to ask instead of going straight to the answer. He said he found it where others had looked which is an obvious mind trap to the wrong answer, tho his solution must have a strong physical resemblance to the tried and failed, imo. And so that we don't have to reinvent the wheel (excuse the pun) and search blindly, he mentors us thru his various books, albeit from behind a veil.

ATEOTD we are a community, it is a place to share the load, experiences, opinions, get excited, get disappointed, perhaps stamp your feet, maybe once in a while get some valuable feedback, or mentor someone else. All in all a place to hang out without too much judgement for the sins of your hobby.

Hey Fletcher - very cool that you would mention the Forrest Fenn treasure hunt - I go out a couple times a year as an excuse for a motorcycle adventure.





I do a three day ride and camp every year in northwest Colorado sort of casually geared to the Forrest Fenn treasure hunt. The ridemaster is a high school history teacher and explores the history of the area which today includes Dinosaur National Monument.

The first pic is looking down at the Yampa River in the park and the second is a cave on the river found with a pick axe buried in the rock wall.

The ridemaster is convinced the treasure is buried in the area and has a good rationale on this thread at the bottom of page 5:

https://advrider.com/f/threads/forrest- ... e.1086373/

Some very rough country to hide the treasure but a fun excuse for a ride!

Here's one for CC .. my son in conversation last night told me that Forrest Fenn's treasure had been found June 2020. So I went online to find out more. It was found in Wyoming. Read the article. The process he followed, and the resilience showed, and the solving of the poem, is pretty analogous to the Bessler story and quite inspiring imo.

https://www.outsideonline.com/2419429/f ... jack-stuef

[cloud camper]

Wow - I had heard the treasure was found but the location was never revealed.

The photos shown are taken in Dinosaur National Monument - only a few miles from Wyoming - so very close!

Too bad the treasure was found - created a lot of excitement and mystique all over the world. I really wanted to devote more time to the hunt but it's all over now!

Thanks Fletcher - never realized we were actually pretty close! - although Wyoming is still a huge area.

Glenn

[Fletcher]

You are welcome. I think he said the 'blaze' was somewhat weathered or something (not so obvious or pristine) which might have put people off. It would still be interesting to find the exact location it was buried. Just for kicks and curiosity.

[Sam Peppiatt]

I doubt that it, the box, was found in Wyoming, which is roughly 1,000 from Santa Fe, NM.
I don't see how he could possibly find the box and get all the way to Finn's place, in the same day, as he said he did.

Where ever it was, it wasn't in Wyoming-------------Sam