Anyone suffer health problems over this?

[silent]

.

[Silvertiger]

Perhaps it would be good for you to take a break from it all. From what you wrote, it reads like you are an agnostic at the very least. You don't have to sell your soul to the devil to gain knowledge. Without salvation, your soul has already been spoken for - it already belongs to the devil. It is a result of the schisms of the world and mankind that came from the first sin. In modern terms, the property deed went to the devil when we breached the original contract, forfeiting the inheritance left to us by our Father.

But here are some treats for inspiration:

5 Commit your way to the Lord,
Trust also in Him,
And He shall bring it to pass.
6 He shall bring forth your righteousness as the light,
And your justice as the noonday.

King Solomon lays down some basic guidelines as well. According to eyewitness testimony, he WAS the wisest man to have ever lived. Even Cleopatra was astonished when she met him, as at first she did not believe the hearsay, and later after traveling to meet him, not only recanted that statement, but also added that the rumors had been far understated.

3 Commit your works to the Lord,
And your thoughts will be established.

I especially take heart to this one -

2 It is the glory of God to conceal a matter; and the glory of kings to search it out.

Paul had something very specific to say about just these sort of pursuits that seem to evade the minds of men, when he speaks of spiritual wisdom:

9 But as it is written:
“Eye has not seen, nor ear heard,
Nor have entered into the heart of man
The things which God has prepared for those who love Him.�

A more modern translation of it this: "Things never discovered or heard of before, things beyond our ability to imagine—these are the many things God has in store for those who love Him."


More interesting even...

If Bessler had received or been born with a certain mantle of God to be granted the ability to search matters concealed from man, then that mantle has yet to be passed. People are born every day with certain mantles of God, and unto some they are also given. This can also be termed as an anointing or specific empowerment. A good example of this is the Angelic Mantle. The Angelic Mantle grants the possessor certain abilities, such as having the strength of ten men, the visual acuity of an eagle, superior reflexes and agility, as well as complete protection from harm in battle. I cite this mantle as it is known throughout history to have been given to certain men of renown: people like David's thirty, Samson, George Washington, Wyatt Earp, Attila the Hun, my grandfather, etc. People who are born into a mantle will either use it for the purpose of good or for evil, and yet they will retain it for all their days. It may skip a generation, or several, until it is passed on either through birth or through prayer and walking uprightly. A mantle is a gift of God.

All of the above can be tied together and summed up in what Paul wrote to Timothy:
Regarding the condition of your mind -

6 Therefore I remind you to stir up the gift of God which is in you through the laying on of my hands. 7 For God has not given us a spirit of fear, but of power and of love and of a sound mind.

Regarding your gifts either discovered or undiscovered -

14 Do not neglect the gift that is in you, which was given to you by prophecy with the laying on of the hands of the eldership.

[agor95]

It is good to get away from a focused project and take stock.

One should take some time too define what pleasure you get from investigating this quest.

Also balance this with other interests. Always keep an eye on your future self looking back and seeing how much time you used on one subject instead of another.

Health exercise, food and a selection of mental exercises are good to do.
However to focus on one to the exclusion to a balances life is not good.

I for one see the need to learn other subjects to help up skill myself.
That in turn allows a more rounded view of The Quest.

The person I am now is not the same person I was from last year.
Those extra skills are a positive in the Bessler Quest.

So take some time and remember the positives.

Throw a shrimp on the barbie and have a tinny :)

Regards

[ovyyus]

I can see the wisdom behind Ovyyus' skepticism because it's far easier on your health to rectify the problem as impossible, that Bessler was a fraud...

I don't think Bessler was a fraud. I think your assumption that Bessler's wheel was somehow powered by gravity is wrong. Persuing a wrong assumption is never easy.

[Johndoe2]

Really good and thought provoking thread.

On a physical level we are all under the rule/ will of god.

This speaks of predestination and omnipotence.
God forces no one to do his bidding but allows all free will. However through his omnipotence as paul said “ all things work to the good of those who kove god.�

As for gifts from god we all have our own gifts in the body of christ. As paul also discusses when talking about speaking tongues and prophesy. All are necessary and important but not inrelationahip to one another. This is a lie from the devil himself.

If you are thnking / complaining that god chose bessler and not you or someone else this is god providence not mans. For he who made the pots has the right to make some for one use (honor or dishonor) and another for another use. This is the fallacy of man. All you can do is to align yourself and life with gods will and everything else will work accordingly. If you are not aligned with his will as where you run into failure and loss and heartache.

[Johndoe2]

I can see the wisdom behind Ovyyus' skepticism because it's far easier on your health to rectify the problem as impossible, that Bessler was a fraud...

I don't think Bessler was a fraud. I think your assumption that Bessler's wheel was somehow powered by gravity is wrong. Persuing a wrong assumption is never easy.

Curious as to what you base your assumption on ( that bessler had another energy source)

[ovyyus]

It's not an assumption that no one knows how Bessler's wheel worked. It is an assumption that Bessler's wheel was somehow powered by gravity - even though no one has ever demonstrated such a thing and physics describes why such attempts end in failure. Therefore, Bessler's wheel was powered by something else.

On a physical level we are all under the rule/ will of god.

There's no physical evidence to support your claim. It's an assumption that your personal god might rule others, or even physics.

[Bill_Mothershead]

1. “Failure is not the opposite of success, it’s part of success.� Anonymous

2. “Don’t bury your failures, let them inspire you.� Robert Kiyosaki

3. “Failure defeats losers but it inspires winners.� Anonymous

4. “Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm.� Winston Churchill

5. “Don’t worry about failures, worry about the chances you miss when you don’t even try.� Jack Canfield

6. “There is no such thing as failure, only learning experiences.� Anonymous

7. “Fail, fail again, fail better.� Samuel Beckett

8. “Failures are part of life. If you don’t fail, you don’t learn. If you don’t learn you’ll never change.� Anonymous

9. “Don’t fear failure. Fear being in the exact same place next year as you are today.� Anonymous

10. “The master has failed more times than the beginner has tried.� Stephen McCranie

11. “Failure is simply the opportunity to begin again, this time more intelligently.� Henry Ford

12. “Failure is the condiment that gives its flavor.� Truman Capote

13. “Fear regret more than failure.� Taryn Rose

14. “She was unstoppable, not because she did not have failures or doubts, but because she continued on despite them.� Beau Taplin

15. “In order to succeed, you must be willing to experience failure.� Anonymous

16. “It’s fine to celebrate success but it is more important to heed the lessons of failure.� Bill Gates

17. “Fail: First Attempt In Learning.� Anonymous

18. “Never let success get to your head; never let failure get to your heart.� Anonymous

19. “I can accept failure. Everyone fails at something. But I can not accept not trying.� Michael Jordan

20. “Failure should be our teacher, not our undertaker. Failure is delay, not defeat.
It is a temporary detour, not a dead-end. Failure is something we can avoid only by
saying nothing, doing nothing, and being nothing.� Denis Waitley

21. “The one who falls and gets up is so much stronger than the one who never fell.� Anonymous

22. “What defines us is how well we rise after falling.� Anonymous

23. “The bigger the failure, the greater the lesson.� Anonymous

24. “The only true failure is when you stop trying.� Anonymous

25. “Successful people don’t fear failure, but understand that it’s necessary to learn and grow from.� Robert Kiyosaki

26. “I haven’t failed. I’ve just found 10,000 ways that won’t work.� Thomas Edison

27. “Failure is success in progress.� Anonymous

28. “Failure is nothing more than a chance to revise your strategy.� Anonymous

29. “What if you fail? You will. Then you move on.� Anonymous

30. “It’s not failure, it’s unfinished success.� Anonymous

31. “Success is not a good teacher, failure makes you humble.� Shah Rukh Khan

32. “Do not be embarrassed by your failures, learn from them and start again.� Richard Branson

33. “The failures and struggles of today will be the juiciest parts of your success story.� Anonymous

34. “Failure doesn’t mean you are a failure, it just means you haven’t succeeded yet.� Robert H. Schuller

35. “Failure is another stepping stone to greatness.� Oprah Winfrey

[Johndoe2]

I agree that there is no supporting evidence in god.
The post was made for those who have made the decision to believe on Faith. Silent in his post talks about divine intervention , if you believe in that it goes without saying that you believe in the divine.
I am not trying to convince anyone of god only discussing the issues the op brought up as itrelates to faith In a christian idea of god ( this was my assumption) however he could be refering to another god or just a generic idea of god.
If you do not believe in god or a christian god then that post ovyyusly was not for you.
I Do find it amazing that by far most of the greatest minds throughout history have professed faith in a god or creator of some sort ( gallaleo, einstein, newton off the top of my head) and only recently has it become fashionable for those in the scientific community to profess to be atheist or agnostic. ( granted the church was less forgiving then than now but the fact still remains.

Also i can give scriptural quotes if you are disputing my interpretation of the bibles holy sctiptures .

[ovyyus]

I Do find it amazing that by far most of the greatest minds throughout history have professed faith in a god or creator of some sort ( gallaleo, einstein, newton off the top of my head) and only recently has it become fashionable for those in the scientific community to profess to be atheist or agnostic.

It's not so amazing that freedom from tyranny might be liberating.

[Johndoe2]

Even so that still leaves Einstein. At the very least and he was no slouch from what i have heard.

[eccentrically1]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religious ... t_Einstein

[ME]

Ever since I embarked on the Bessler Wheel quest, I've noticed a slow but steady downward spiral in my health. Clouded thinking, angina, loss of sleep, and other things.

When it's not boring scientific-like research, but some internal pressure for success then you may have to observe yourself a bit closer.

Perhaps reflect on the possibility that researching perpetual motion could be motivated by yet unknown subconscious needs.
One could ask for example: when one's strong wishes are able to manipulate and control laws of nature itself so that one can literally have the power in one's hands, then what could be the prime-mover of this PMM researcher?

Besides possible disturbing answers, the urge for research could also stem from a subconscious search and need for time and energy because of a literal lack of personal vitality.
Whatever it is, I agree with 'that-guy-formerly-known-as' Agor, and it may be best to take a break more often.
Or start making simple agenda-entries for pattern-finding.

Take care.

I'm a fiercely competitive person and I hate losing

Competetive to..? Losing to...?

Your story tells about things in relativity with some bursts of absolutes.
That's intangible chaos, and it sucks.
But in all that chaos it's also possible that reorganized thought sparks a brand new idea, just as supposedly happened to Bessler.
You can't force it. It happens. Just most often not.
Disappointment sucks too.

I almost suspect that it's a divine intervention that prevents mankind from discovering such things.

So you suspect that it's either an issue of law, or otherwise an issue of worthiness...?

As strange as it may be, that does sound reasonable.
I don't think there's any trend in human history where availability (take energy for example) results in using less of it, besides 'managed' availability for deflecting worse outcomes somewhere else.
As an individual we do just fine, but as a group we unfortunately need things like religion or other group-think to keep ourselves in check and avoid blowing ourselves up at the first possible opportunity.
Whatever the construct, their will always be ugly side-effects. But at least en-masse it moves slow so nature has time to recover from our bad decisions we inflict... hopefully.

I Do find it amazing that by far most of the greatest minds throughout history have professed faith in a god or creator of some sort ( gallaleo, einstein, newton off the top of my head) and only recently has it become fashionable for those in the scientific community to profess to be atheist or agnostic.

Because the reason is also amazingly simple.
In science, discovery, research and development people already know about the implications of cause and effect... It is already the basis of the whole mindset to prevent self-delusion and for actually moving forward, and not dwell in it.
Somehow the rest of the peeps need to be reminded...every...single...time.

[Johndoe2]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religious ... t_Einstein

According to this he was an agnostic pantheist.
In other words he believed.
1) man could not know without a doubt that their was a god.
2) if there was a god it wpuld be similar to spinozas god, ie impersonal.


This is fair enough and shows an acceptanxe of the possibility (likelihood?) of an inpersonal god which is much different than the scientific attitude that appears to be the norm today.

[eccentrically1]

It hasn't changed much since then.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Relations ... s'_beliefs

In laypeople

https://www.scientificamerican.com/arti ... is-rising/

I didn't check if the ratios were similar.