MTs, WM2D, and WM Basic Language Script Code

[Johndoe2]

MrVibrating. One way to increase your power stroke duration as Rpms increase (as any gear head worth his salt will tell you) is to retard the timing. In modern cars this is primarily done by computers but in the good old days was usually done by the distributor and vacuum system. Or even a mechanical linkage.

[Wubbly]

MT-26

MT-26 is very similar to MT-1 with a few modifications. The channel "E" in Bessler's drawing would be the slot constraint in the WM2D model. The chords "D" stop the movement of the outward slide instead of hitting the rim. If Bessler's chord was a spring, it would store the energy of the outward slide. By interpreting the chords to be springs, the MT-1 simulations with springs would sim the movement of MT-26.

We can cross MT-26 off the completed sim list. Two for the price of one.

[ME]

As many designs can be skipped, the question remains: what is this "augmented problem" he's talking about.

He link this design to the (I think more complex) MT025, but he doesn't tell us what that is except that it can be "described simply". And MT025 is told to be alike MT024 "except for some differences".
We get noted at MT027 that it is alike MT026, but "slightly larger and altered".

The "augmented problem" could indeed relate to the MT001 issue of that need for rolling/sliding downwards to attempt an overbalance.. but that's an unworkable issue with almost all designs.
Or this "augmented problem" could relate to those other three, somewhat similar, designs. I think the remark at MT027 about being an example of 'several along an axle shaft" is a bit weird: It may be true, but it's not really special as almost all designs preceding and following show multiple mechanisms along an axle.

I think a simulation (or recreation) is usually about gaining a "feel" for the mechanism... when it is tied in such a special way to the rest, then perhaps it is still worthwhile to simulate (or recreate), even though we don;t need a simulator (or recreation) to find out it is indeed not a runner.
We also had to "study MT025 extensively", and "grasp the good quality" of MT024.

[raj]

Are mechanical computer simulation calculations based entirely on mechanical PHYSICS?

Raj

[ME]

Raj... again, it's science.

It's what scientific research is basically all about: How do things work.
Either for gaining understanding, or for gaining advantage. Or both.

[Wubbly]

WM2D uses numerical methods to find an answer.

[Wubbly]

Maybe the augmented problem is that it doesn't work.

Or maybe the augmented problem is when you extend the radius on one side, you sweep through a smaller angle for the same height drop.

[Fletcher]

Discussion regarding MT26 :

I'm not sure there is a real 'augmented' problem to be solved. Simply more to be discovered in the OOB problem, perhaps hinted at in MT26, imo.

As many designs can be skipped, the question remains: what is this "augmented problem" he's talking about.

He links this design to the (I think more complex) MT025, but he doesn't tell us what that is except that it can be "described simply". And MT025 is told to be alike MT024 "except for some differences". We get noted at MT027 that it is alike MT026, but "slightly larger and altered".

The "augmented problem" could indeed relate to the MT001 issue of that need for rolling/sliding downwards to attempt an overbalance.. but that's an unworkable issue with almost all designs. Or this "augmented problem" could relate to those other three, somewhat similar, designs. I think the remark at MT027 about being an example of 'several along an axle shaft" is a bit weird: It may be true, but it's not really special as almost all designs preceding and following show multiple mechanisms along an axle.

I think a simulation (or recreation) is usually about gaining a "feel" for the mechanism... when it is tied in such a special way to the rest, then perhaps it is still worthwhile to simulate (or recreate), even though we don;t need a simulator (or recreation) to find out it is indeed not a runner. We also had to "study MT025 extensively", and "grasp the good quality" of MT024.

Wiki Page Translations (in Black) : - more recent translations than original by the same translator (Mike Senior).

Original John Collins MT Translations (in Red) : - note 24 and 25 are on the same page reinforcing similarity and DNA. Same with 26 and 27.

No. 24 This invention ought not to be scorned. It consists of separate levers with weights. Between the weights are small iron poles with hinges. The poles fall inward when the levers close. There is something one must learn first before one can grasp and correctly understand the good quality of the invention.

No. 24. This invention should not to be scorned. It consists of special weighted levers and some hinged iron rods that close between the levers and can fold inward. There is, however, more to explain about it before you will grasp and correctly understand its good qualities.

No. 25 This is the previous model except for some differences. It is sketched with longer poles. There is something misleading about the diagram, for the poles, when coming out, must not project so far out but must bend somewhat further inwardly. There is more to it than one supposes; one must study the diagram extensively.

No. 25. This is similar to the previous model except that it is drawn somewhat differently and with longer rods; there is something misleading about the diagram, because the folding rods should not project so far out but must bend further inward. There is more to this than one might think. Mark my words.

No. 26. This is somewhat different from the previous model, but it can be described simply: A are levers which are interrupted at B and equipped with weight-wheels at C. The weight-wheels run in a channel E and are attached to the cords D. As the diagram shows, one side is heavier than the other. Behind this problem one looks for an augmented problem.

No. 26. This differs from the previous model, but it too is shown in a simplified way: A are levers, hinged at B and equipped with weightwheels at C. The latter run in a channel E and are connected to the cord D. As the diagram shows, one side is heavier than the other. There is more to be sought in this problem.

No. 27 This is the previous model slightly larger and altered: A are the levers interrupted at B and having a heart-weight at C, and D are the straps, or cords, and chains. It needs no further, lengthier explanation. This view shows what the thing might do if several things of this sort were placed next to one another along an axle-shaft.

No. 27. This is the previous model only slightly larger and modified; ‘A’ are the levers hinged at B and having a heart-shaped weight at C; and D are the belts or cords, and chains. A lengthier explanation is not needed. Upon inspection one can see what the device might do if many such models were arranged side by side on one axle.

[ME]

Fletcher, thanks for that clarification.
It shows the need for the original German text (in readable form).

[Fletcher]

FWIW ME .. I believe the weight-wheels in 26 are the game changing hint of 26 i.e. use of rolling cylindrical weights as part of the 'apparatus' for continuous 'wheel' imbalance, in the presence of a separate Prime Mover 'arrangement'. Imo the hint is very obscure and well removed from the true purpose (not even remotely as shown imo) of rolling weights inside his wheels. So far removed that it is unlikely that anybody would ever stumble upon how they were actually used from this drawing alone, unless you had made other critical connections in MT, to join the dots so to speak.

The weight-wheels are replaced in 27 by heart shaped weights, not for functionality, but to reinforce how good a choice they would be, imo.

Johann Bessler, cover page of Maschinen Tractate

"Further demonstrations regarding the possibility and impossibility of perpetual motion

NB. May 1, 1733. Due to the arrest, I burned and buried all papers that prove the possibility. However, I have left all demonstrations and experiments, since it would be difficult for anybody to see or learn anything about a perpetual motion from them or to decide whether there was any truth in them because no illustration by itself contains a description of the motion; however, taking various illustrations together and combining them with a discerning mind, it will indeed be possible to look for a movement and, finally to find one in them."

I post up JB's opening comments in MT. Mainly to reinforce that a motion can be seen; and a movement, being two separate things. The weight-wheels relate to a motion imo. The Prime Mover to the ultimate wheel movement, also imo.

N.B. Bessler let his lead weights be handled. They were covered by a cloth. The were cylindrical in shape (about the size and shape of a coke can it seems). If the shape was not important then it would be far easier to cast from lead just about any other shape, imo !

[Georg Künstler]

Hi Fletcher,
when I mention correct, i had asked already for the original german text in the wiki page, so that everyone can translate and interpret the text in their own.

There are a lot of insights lost during the translation because the translation is made without technical knowledge. A one to one translation not taking care of the context.

For example i have here the translation of the right angle.
In german we have the 'im richtigen Winkel' is translated to in the right angle.
A right angle can be an angle of 90 degrees.
The other translation is the correct angle.
So the translation of the word right is misleading.

Now to the cylindrical weights:
know they were made from lead, that has a special reason.
The size you mentioned like a coke tube is not correct.
You can calculate the weight of a coke tube. rho=11.2 of lead
The volume of a coke tube is 0,33 liter
This will result in a weight of 3.6 kg.

From eyewitness you know it has 4 pound so 2 kg, you can calculate it better.
There is an other limitation of the high of the cylindrical weight, that is the thickness of the main wheel. You can assume 18 cm.
Now we can calculate again. You will get the diameter of the cylinder.

It will result in a specific shape of the cylinder. Looking more like a thick pencil.

The eyewitness were not allowed to feel the ends of the cylindrcal weights, why ? Because there was a hole to bound the stopping wedge.

From the artists in Bad Karlshafen I got the information that this wedge has the form of a double half moon.

If the wedge has this form, the cylinder can be blocked either to the left or to the right.

We generate a moving in one roll direction, the other direction is blocked.

[Fletcher]

Yes Georg it would be nice to be able to read the original German written by Bessler. Failing that I have to trust those who have spent considerable time deciphering what was written, and in its context, like Mike Senior. Every time one language and lexicon is translated to another resolution is lost. It makes things harder to understand but perhaps not impossible to communicate intent.

I think the overriding thing here is 'not to throw the baby out with the bath water'.

In regards to the shape, size, and mass of the weights, we know they were cylindrical (no argument). We assume they were lead but that was not confirmed by eye witnesses, tho Bessler says many pieces of lead etc. So does cylindrical mean a disk shape (could be) or does it mean like a coke can shape and dimension for example ? Or what you describe a a short pencil.

FYI coke cans come in 2 sizes, 12 fl.oz. (standard), and 7.5 fl.oz. (mini can). The mini can has a volume 62.5% of the standard can. Often found in hotel mini-bars ;7)

So using jim_mich' calcs from 20 Jan 2014 a mini can would have a mass of approximately 5.6 lbs lead (assuming 12 fl.oz is 9 lbs lead). To much when witnesses say about 4 lbs weight. But if we use your figure of 12 fl.oz can filled with lead of 3.6 kgs, then 62.5% = 2.25 kgs. Much closer, especially if we make allowances for a center spanwise hole.

https://www.besslerwheel.com/forum/view ... 563#119563

Several such weights, wrapped in his handkerchief, he let us weigh in our hands to estimate their weight. They were judged to be about four pounds each, and their shape was definitely cylindrical.

Before translocating the wheel, the Inventor who was performing the test for the officially appointed Commissioners, took out the weights and permitted one of them to be touched, wrapped in a handkerchief. He did not allow the weight to be touched on the end, but lengthwise, it felt cylindrical and not very thick.

https://www.besslerwheel.com/forum/view ... 584#119584

A 12 fl. oz. Coke can is 21.62625 cubic inches. (They're actually closer to 23.5 cubic inches since there's air space in the can.)

Lead weighs 0.4105 lbs per cubic inch.

... 4_lb ÷ 0.4105 = 9.744 cubic inches of lead

... 21.62625_fl.oz. × 0.4105 = 8.8899 lbs. of lead will fill a Coke can.

Actually a Coke can filled completely full of lead will weigh about 9.5 lbs when the air space is filled.

A 2.60 inch diameter 12 oz. Coke can when cut to 1.835 inches long will hold 4 lbs of lead.

So the lead weights were more like slightly smaller than half of a 12 oz. Coke can.

So it comes down to what does cylindrical mean, in any language ? If I want to describe a disk I usually don't call it a cylinder. I use another adjective, like coin shaped, plate shaped, washer shaped etc. If I describe a pencil shape I call it a cylinder like shape. Same as I do for describing plastic piping etc. Have you ever owned old cloth maps, that you roll up and store in a hard cylinder with a lid ?

Anyways, you and I agree that the weights were cylinders (because the witnesses [many educated and articulate] said so). That means they were round, had breadth and depth, and perhaps were not like thin coins or washers in dimension, imo.

And IMO that shape and proportions was an essential, non negotiable design requirement !

And was the reason why Bessler hid them under a handkerchief and did not allow close examination for wear marks for example !

If he wanted to spare them getting grease on their hands and clothes he could have just placed the weight on top of a cloth, but he covered them completely.

[Fletcher]

Anyhoo .. returning to babies and bathwater.

Mike Senior translates in MT26 multiple times the word(s) wheel-weights (or wheelweights).

A wheel that is a weight !

A weight is self explanatory.

A wheel might be a free rolling solid cylinder with no axle. But even in Bessler's days horse drawn carts and buggies had wheels with axles, and there were millers wheels, clock wheels etc. Wheels were common in various applications and uses and, generally had axles. In fact MT26 spells it out to us. The wheel-weight has an axle and rolls and slides in channel E. So the wheel-weight was designed to turn on its axle.

[Wubbly]

MT-24
While we are on the subject of MT24, here's a simulation of it. Bessler says it ought not to be scorned, but I have no idea why. It seems to do nothing.

The simulation dialog box lets you select a few different rod lengths, only some of which 'work'. The longer ones lock up the geometry of the rod constraints probably because of the pivot points I selected. Once you turn off the motor, it quickly stops rotating.

[Sam Peppiatt]

To anyone,

If the German text is so much better than the English; hows come, Germans can't figure it out either?? (or the Dutch)

Sam Peppiatt