The Real Johann Bessler's Wheel!

[TheVisitorV]

This is the secret movement that he was hiding, hammers are not properly synchronized BTW...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wq82AxF ... e=youtu.be


also made a presentation but for now it's only in Romanian:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DQL_D6wFK3E


I can only upload a number of pics into the forum, so i've used an external service:

https://ibb.co/TKq0LKt
https://ibb.co/n6tvJg9
https://ibb.co/5FZW9j9
https://ibb.co/Dk3z9yZ
https://ibb.co/M5k80ZD
https://ibb.co/ZcZZwpq
https://ibb.co/8c02VL7
https://ibb.co/n6MJvg7
https://ibb.co/RcY9g9t
https://ibb.co/TB8H2cD

[TheVisitorV]

hmmm i'll go ahead and upload more pics

[TheVisitorV]

i have used 2 chains instead of 1, you can get away with one if you do a bit of a different arrangement of the hammers, that would actually be indicated but requires different parts.

This machine respects all clues left for us to deschipher! EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THEM!

Even the one weight goes up quickly another one goes down slowly...
the thing is this, the ratchet releases the triger when it reaches a certain angle, the loaded spring pushes the weights uppword and it locks them in reverse so now they need to spin.


also i've not complicated the design by doing the entire wheel to spin as it required even more parts and since there is nothing to hide anymore no need to do it again, if you want to do so, go ahead, be my guest.

If you have any questions go ahead , shoot!!!!

[raj]

Bessler's wheel, as is often mentioned on this forum, was so simple that a carpenter boy could easily build it after ONE look at it.

I believe SIMPLICITY is the name of the game.

Raj

[Georg Künstler]

Hi TheVisitorV,
the solution you presented is too complex as that a carpenter can build.
Only One crossbar, standing, then falling over in a Hamster Cage is enough.
Nevertheless a cool Design.
What is your expected rounds per Minute and the output power for a given building Size.
Can we scale it up ?

[TheVisitorV]

Bessler's wheel, as is often mentioned on this forum, was so simple that a carpenter boy could easily build it after ONE look at it.

I believe SIMPLICITY is the name of the game.

Raj

Lets not confuse the metaphors with the reality.

This is simple enough and more important then that it respects all clues, it's dependent on radius as well as other things, children play among broken columns, boxers box, bow twangs, runners run, drivers drive etc etc etc....

[TheVisitorV]

Hi TheVisitorV,
the solution you presented is too complex as that a carpenter can build.
Only One crossbar, standing, then falling over in a Hamster Cage is enough.
Nevertheless a cool Design.
What is your expected rounds per Minute and the output power for a given building Size.
Can we scale it up ?

It's actually not that complex, there are not that many parts and the parts that are used are not that complicated.

Yes, it can be scaled up in all aspects, but be aware, it's radius dependent, the radius dictates the conversion factor from the falling of the crossbar on one side to the number of spins the hammers do, the faster the hammers spin the more power they have the more they either stretch the springs or compress them.


this is one crossbar , as we already know we need more....


and something like a hamster cage could be more suited as all that a hamster cage is in the end nothing more the a gear

[TheVisitorV]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u3VeJ5qzmY4

Made a clip where i show the triggers in action, it's not better in some ways then the other clip but it shows the complex movement that the "wheel" makes and also why i went for 4 hammers instead of 2 on the same bar.

I will try to bring the simulation closer to the real thing, but there is nut much else that i can do....for now at least. Anyway, whoever builds it right he/she will have the first bessler wheel in 300 years or so...

I will try to give you the few parts that are left so you get a better impression, no secrets, i've explained them already, but it might help you to understand better.

[TheVisitorV]

k, i've done a 10 minute presentation of the toy page, what is what and how do they work together and WHY!!!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v_4js4MW6gM

[TheVisitorV]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9JEtsoAVD6o

Working on a prototype that is more suitable for production then the previous. Found a way to have all 4 hammers synchronized the way they should be, but it's not the most compact way to do it, yet i believe that it's the simplest way to do it from a... 1 guy, low tech tools, craftsmanship stand point.

But with better tools and craftmanship, this thing can be made alot more compact then what it is now. I will develop those as well.

Now we need 1 chain only and the crossbar is self balancing up/down, no vibrations or movement outside the axes that we actually want the inertia to go and do the magic. This 1 crossbar should work by itself, no other need it but don't expect much power out of it.

Anyway i will improve and post more as i go along...

Also i explained in the video what you need to do extra electricity with a motor and a generator...it's a lot simpler then building this wheel if you buy the genie and the motor.

[ME]

..., but it's not the most compact way to do it, yet i believe that it's the simplest way to do it from a... 1 guy, low tech tools, craftsmanship stand point.
But with better tools and craftmanship, this thing can be made alot more compact then what it is now. I will develop those as well.

Look at the development of computers. From room-sized with a jungle of cables and who knows what till pin-head-sized chips... Don't worry about it.

[JAL]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9JEtsoAVD6o

Working on a prototype that is more suitable for production then the previous. Found a way to have all 4 hammers synchronized the way they should be, but it's not the most compact way to do it, yet i believe that it's the simplest way to do it from a... 1 guy, low tech tools, craftsmanship stand point.

But with better tools and craftmanship, this thing can be made alot more compact then what it is now. I will develop those as well.

Now we need 1 chain only and the crossbar is self balancing up/down, no vibrations or movement outside the axes that we actually want the inertia to go and do the magic. This 1 crossbar should work by itself, no other need it but don't expect much power out of it.

Anyway i will improve and post more as i go along...

Also i explained in the video what you need to do extra electricity with a motor and a generator...it's a lot simpler then building this wheel if you buy the genie and the motor.

I thought I'd ask if you wouldn't mind my offering one or 2 suggestions. You could ask ME if he could consider the math. It is possible that if you slightly modified your concept that it could work. I believe there are 2 important things that Bessler knew.
If I said Li f(x) = y = 2x + 4, ME would know what I'm talking about. And if (x,y) is (0,+) or (0,-) then he'd know that I'm talking about top center and bottom center transition points.
He might be willing to check the work > torque values. Your design is similar to Mt 20 and a dropping weight performs the same work whether it's on a long lever or rotating a pulley connected to a hammer. And this is like one of the original pictures you showed of the toy. They are striking the hub (axle) of the wheel. As one of his clue says, as one weight moves towards the axle, another moves away from it.

[ME]

Euh... Well, ME suggest: Thanks for offering ME?
I could utter: May that heavy smoke clear the view of many and that smoldering light the road...
:-|
But I won't.

One could assume I would like to be harnessed in front/behind/aside such cart, but I only wonder what that line is doing there going from a quarter to eight to the positive Y...
Why? Is that line representing something in V's design?

But let's not harass VisitorV too much, he is doing just fine.
I'm glad he finally found a working pulley system for that simulator.

Beside, whenever Denver presents a new video and his voice takes us on a journey while elaborating his presentation I'm somehow missing an intro.
I suggest this one, seems perfect:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6YnQc-AdNCI

[JAL]

Nevermind. x - x = 0. true in any system.
Me, I mentioned you because I am accused of being a fraud, not knowing math and I also am not a builder.
Then again engineering is a discipline.

@Visitor, sorry about that. It looks like you have 2 hammers rotating the same way on the opposite side of your concept. If so, they both have the same value of x.
If I were a real American I would say that ME doesn't know math. If he did then he would need to know that x - x does not allow for an over balance. The ascending behavior needs to be different from the descending behavior. But I'm not a real American so I won't say that.
https://youtu.be/_bAwfvZz5wk

With math, the work performed to rotate a weight cannot be the same when it is descending and ascending. That work will cancel itself. Why I suggested considering a slight modification.
With what I am building, the ascending weight requires less work to lift it. And I do know that building is a lot of work.
Something for you to consider Visitor. It's too much work for it to be a competition.

@ME, AB Hammer doesn't like me because I am 1/2 Norwegian. I speak English as a 2nd language. Actually Americans do not like me. People are funny that way. Bessler had the same problem. He was a nobody.

[TheVisitorV]

all hammers need to spin in that direction to cancel out the gravity effect on them, their sole purpose is to move the linkages, the last links, the linkages move the weights, the big blue weights, the first link, ONE AT AT TIME! each cycle of the spinning hammers moves both weights but each half cycle moves 1 weight.
All hammers are linked together and ITS A MUST TO MAINTAIN THE SAME RELATIVE POSITION TO EACH OTHER AT ALL TIMES!!!!

That is why he used a chain, that is why he drew a chain!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
there is no reason for him to use a chain when it's way more complicated thing to craft and setup then a simple belt, except if he need it another property for his drive system. That property was that he wanted to keep everything at all times in the same position. Something that cannot be achieved with a belt!

Watch the first video from the first post carefully! read this post then watch it again, watch the toy page then read this again and watch the video again...

Here is the thing, the blue weights act as a battery system that feeds from gravity (the entire machine) and returns to gravity, while this cycle is going on the hammers get excited due to the falling big blue weights and they spin, while spinning they return to gravity thru centrifugal forces and inertia the big blue weights. The cycle goes and goes.

Do not know if compression/expansion springs are a must yet but what i know for sure is that they make the hole thing way way more efficient.

"Gravity" is not the secret that he was hiding, what he was hiding are those bloody spinning hammers and the way he set them up...

The translation is either incorrect or the meaning of the word SWINGING has changed.

SWINGING is spinning!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! there is no damn swinging in the machine but there is shit loads of spinning. The faster the hammers spin the more power they have and they release!



The pendulums in the drawings encode the exact same thing, the movement of those hammers, but it's just a glimpse a still shot into the entire process. but the wheel gives the idea of circular movement.

The C & D drawings encode the exact same movement, even more then that they show plain as day light that each half cycle moves 1 weight and 1 weight alone!!!!!!!!!!!

in the damn drawings, look at them, the axle is always in the center so the "top" weight it's always still but the bottom weight it's always moving

HALF CYCLE! 1 weight moves, full cycle both weights move
GREED IS THE ROOT OF ALL EVIL!

That is why i placed the ratchet system, it can't be done without it

The spinning hammers describe the INFINITY SIGN!!!!


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The linkages

like i said, the hammers move the last point on the links, and the reason is this, while one blue weight is trapped by the ratchet, and the blue weights are connected by the first crossing of the links alone, they do not stop the hammers to act on the entire system. WATCH THE FIRST VIDEO CAREFULLY!

The linkages is also the only system that i know of that can keep the entire chain stretched no matter what movement is going on into the machine! AND THAT IS A MUST!

so these 2 are the main functions of the linkages and the reason he chose this structure and not another type of structure!

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The belt,

another drive system but now ask yourself why he didn't used another chain? was it just pure economics? He was not paying for these machines anyway, his wife did if i recollect correctly before karls time...might be wrong on this one, memory is fuzzy...it's been to long....

Anyway, why a belt? well because he needs a different property now for the drive system, he needs flexibility and he needs something that won't "back fire" into the entire system when the hammers slide on the crossbar. And that cannot be achieved with a chain....

The belt connects the hammers to the outer rim and it transmits the rotary movement generated by the falling on one side of the crossbar, by the contact of the small wheel/gear to the rim. When the hammers slide back and forth:

THE BOW TWANGS!



Not sure how to put this into words, like i said , he did 2 things, 1 he had a type of planetary system inside that generated a counter clockwise movement, that was different then the outer casing that people were seeing, or he used the planetary system to have the crossbars fall and the case to spin counter clockwise.

the second thing that he did he used different combinations from the MT drawings to make it so that something falling excited the hammers enough to get the machine going. But this is way less efficient then the first thing i've described. It is hinted across MT drawings BUT it is not hinted into the Toy Page where we only get the most efficient and simplified machine. I believe this is one of the first methods he discovered before he understood what was really going on. Most likely he used something like the MT 24.


But these 2 things we should not concern ourselves, we do not need a rotating rim, static is better, less parts and no danger approaching it PLUS there is nothing to hide anymore no more time for games, to much time had passed very little left ....


ALSO i believe he used instead of geared hammers like i showed you, belted ones, there is a difference but i wont go into it now, in a real system you want as many teeth as you can if your not using belts, the belts need to criss cross , if that is the word ( X ) i think i've explained in the first design why so...maybe not...another time.

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i will upload a pic shortly to show the difference between well placed hammers and not , if is still have it...