Bessler's Secret

[JAL]

It is the grindstone. What people overlook is that it's position around the axle doesn't mean it's center or that it rotates.
Pi/2>1 is a true statement. It would be easy enough for a Sim to be done. I know today that sims are easier for most people to grasp. If my build works then people can consider what they think of the principle.
With this type of perpetual motion a falling weight is linear momentum. From top center to bottom center gravity is accelerating it. Once it passes bottom center conservation of angular momentum comes into play. This prevents the momentum of the wheel to be used to retract the weight. This is when most designs fail. It takes work to move an over balanced weight to it's inner most position.
A grindstone does the work for free. This concept identifies where and when free energy is realized.

[agor95]

Are these two grind stones cut with curved spirals with clock wise and the other counter clockwise on the inner face. Then the axis between the two are not exactly aligned?

[JAL]

Agor, the drawing shows how the grindstone is positioned. As the weight swings past bottom center it moves closer to the axle. If the computer lab at the library was open I could've done a scale drawing.
Until the weight reaches bottom center, it is rotating from the axle. After bottom center it is swinging from the grindstone. The wheel basically performs no work in retracting the weight (moving it towards the axle).
If a sim can be done of this I think everyone will get it. While some energy will be lost because the weight is not directly below the fulcrum on the grindstone, it's minimal.
The grindstone as I mentioned allows linear momentum to be conserved as angular momentum. And if someone has something large and round, they could use that to see the end of the line moves inward towards the axle. Even a round bucket will work. Just create 4 points around the bucket. the point at 3 o'clock can be the fulcrum and 6 o'clock bottom center. Then the distance the line is from bottom center of the bucket to the end of the line can be measured.

[JAL]

This is a better example. Hopefully it's clear enough for everyone to understand. I think if people find something round at home to try this they might be surprised. If you have a full size spare tire that's easy to get to, size does matter. I've kept going larger because then the retraction becomes more obvious.
With this, you measure from the axle to the end of the line. This is because the weight will still be acting on the wheel at that location.

[Georg Künstler]

Hi JAL,
you can try to build this construction, of course it is your baby.
I, from my viewpoint don't give this construction a chance.

I don't see for me the evident points of the wheel.
Weights act in pairs, one is arranging the other, many pieces of lead etc.
I also don't see were the start energy is located.
Which version should it be, self starting or starting with a finger push.
Can you describe the exact movement which you expect and why.

[JAL]

Georg, if people want to consider it, fine. If not, that is also fine.

[JAL]

Notice the person swinging? If you work at it then you'll get it. It's Mt 86 mirrored to be oriented to the design image I posted. If you understand trigonometry then you should be able to calculate l = iw (conservation of angular momentum).
The principle can be modified to work with different mechanics. I don't think the concept of the grindstone can be modified.

edited to add: the descending side is p = mv because of gravity. The swing is l = iw. Or as the weight swings towards the axle, it becomes lighter than the weight swinging down.
Mass (force) is relative to the lateral distance from the axle.
It will be better if you guys figure this out without me. Then you might look at Bessler's drawings differently.

[JAL]

The pythagorean theorem can be used
https://www.mathsisfun.com/pythagoras.html

All values need to be calculated perpendicular to gravity.
There are trigonometry calculators and ° angle, sin, cos, tan sheets also online. Myself, I have spent much time on the math.
If you guys work together, it might be more interesting because you guys would be involved in understanding this.

To help you guys to be on the same page, hypotenuse is c and it is the distance the weight is from the axle.
Sine is the x axis perpendicular to the axle and why is cosine is above or below the axle.
Using the same orientation helps. 😉

p.s., ME knows this math, just not the application.

[JAL]

I could give you guys a mathematical proof. Then someone like ME could walk you through it, then you could do sims and a test.
With what I have to do, I plan on enjoying putting the build together. It's going to look nice but there's just a lot of work to be done. So tomorrow I will see about posting the math. I'll also post an early work up of the design that I am building. Then you'll that the grindstone doesn't rotate. 😀

[ovyyus]

Bessler never said there was a grindstone in his wheel.

[JAL]

Note: The following is one of many possible translation of the old German text, the details are disputed.

Das Triumphirende Perpetuum Mobile Orffyreanum
Johann Bessler, Kassel, 1719, pp. 16-23
Provided by Al Bacon
Translation by Ted of Chicago
Except for a small change in the external dimensions of the wheel for raising weights (or so-called "running wheel"), I have organized everything together in accordance with those structures of the previous machine which I had broken to pieces. These small changes occurred by chance and do not need to be defended.

Around the firmly placed horizontal axis is a rotating disc (low or narrow cylinder) which resembles a grindstone.

Since words are all that matter, I will call it my invention. Bessler never proved he built a working wheel. No one knows if he was a fraud or not.
You oyvvus do not seem to understand engineering, just word play.
Thing is, I think most people know what a grindstone is so it allows for a comparison of an object. But something like that stops you from considering something or are you just nitpicking because if I agree with you and your friends it's my invention.
This is funny.

It's things like this that's unnecessary. My father knew German but I don't. And as for translation that is a part of this forum, it's posted in the Bessler writings section. In some languages as a grindstone might be said. For reference purposes, having to repeatedly cite text gets old. That seems to be more important than the wheel itself.

[ovyyus]

...which resembles a grindstone

Bessler's wheels were narrow rotating disks, in the shape of a grindstone.

If I said your head resembles a melon, I wouldn't mean it actually was a melon.

[JAL]

deleted post. No real need to respond to childish behavior. No real reason to expect that to change 😔
If my build works, oyvvus, you will be allowed to name that component since it has no name. Or would calling it oyvvus work for you? It will need a name and that name does require your approval.

@all, the "oyvvus" is the primary mechanism that allows Bessler's wheel to work. Since we all know what an "oyvvus" is, there is no need for me to explain to anyone what everyone already knows 😂
Problem solved 😉

@ME, can you explain this to oyvvus? A wheel's radius is 1 and the oyvvus is 0.5. The hypoteneuse is 1.5 and the short side is 0.5. You know what a rad is. It's a radical, radian or wheel. You're one of them and I'm not. You know the difference between a degree and a radian.

[ovyyus]

In this post-trump world of alternative facts can a head that resembles a melon be an actual melon?

[agor95]

I could give you guys a mathematical proof. Then someone like ME could walk you through it, then you could do sims and a test.
With what I have to do, I plan on enjoying putting the build together. It's going to look nice but there's just a lot of work to be done. So tomorrow I will see about posting the math. I'll also post an early work up of the design that I am building. Then you'll that the grindstone doesn't rotate. 😀

JAL as kindly offered the mathematical proof to allow the supportive leverage present here in this forum. One can expect no more at this time.

I for one am off to get some melon-in (aka melanin).