Show your competence!

[Krabat]

Guess what it is!

[Art]

Welcome Krabat !

I did not fill in the questionnaire because you don't have a box that suits me ,
ie "I have no clue " ! : )

I'm looking forward to the answers though .The illustrations look very interesting

[silent]

All I can say is that if that really is the solution, certainly I would agree there isn't much to it and not worth the money Bessler was asking. I've never seen those diagrams before and I sure hope that what we're seeing isn't the solution.

silent

[Fletcher]

I guessed Gartner fake.

Because the second side profile has 5 stampers while Bessler's engravings in DT show 4 stampers. Also the A's appear a different font style from Bessler's.

Both the top engraving and the bottom engraving appear to be representations of the same 'wheel' and have the same font styles which seems to confirm that assumption.

The top drawing never-the-less looks very much like a simple knife sharpening wheel seen from the side, that is hand propelled i.e. push the pendulum arm. Usually they have a foot treadle to power them so that both hands can be on the knife or implement being sharpened on the grindstone.

But because the second engraving shows stampers being lifted by the axle I have to assume that is somebody's representation of their PM wheel. It is very similarly laid out and drawn to Bessler's DT engravings. That would be a large coincidence for some other Saxon PM wheel builder in 1790 to make.

Therefore I assume that they are not previously unseen Bessler engraving of his PM wheels but in fact Gartner's engravings of his fake PM wheel done in a very similar style to Bessler's just to rub it in.

The answer will be interesting none-the-less.

[ovyyus]

My guess is it's a variation of Bessler's wheel.

[Zhyyra]

It's about the same size as the Gera wheel, so that rules out the Weissenstein wheel.

Why would a machine to sharpen knives have stampers and pendulums? So, I'm not choosing that option.

A fake by Andreas Gartner? I suppose that is not an impossibility but, Fletch choose that and I want someone to get it right (lol) so, I'm going with:

PM built by a saxon clockmaker around 1790 (60 rpm)

:-)

[Zhyyra]

Lol, just realized that my above post could be taken up wrongly.
I am by no means implying that Fletcher has it wrong lol. I am implying that I could have it wrong, in which case I hope that Fletcher has it right. So, that at least one of us has it right :-)

[WaltzCee]

Lol, just realized that my above post could be taken up wrongly.

I knew what you meant so if I got it I'm sure everyone understood. Covering the bases.

The prints look like engravings, not woodcuts. I thought I recalled that Bessler had some engravings in his estate.

OK, so lets get it cleaned up:

Despite Karl the Landgrave son marrying the Swedish princess, I see no connection with Bessler’s world.

The connexion is that this is the Frederic who asked for the "inventory after death", cause he wasn't only King of Sweden but also Karl's successor as Landgraf of Hessen. Therefore, Karlshafen was part of his country. When F. W. von Malsburg confiscated the letters an apparatus Bessler left in his Karlshafen house, he did it being a servant of Frederic.
(17d Orffyreus 1 - Sicherstellung)

Adam von Mansberg was a landlord in Meinbrexen next to Fürstenberg, being an underling of the Braunschweig Karl, though at the time being in England. (JC)

So both Malsburg (Hessen) an Mansberg (Braunschweig/England) were interested in the last PM. Malsburg managed to impound the Karlshafen part of Bessler's legacy for Frederic. Mansberg wasn't able to buy the PM in Fürstenberg during Besslers lifetime. If the PM and the engravings were left in Fürstenberg, we don't know who appropriated them, probably somebody of the Mansberg family or somebody else working for the Braunschweig Karl. If Bessler in his last days brought the PM back to Karlshafen, maybe Malsburg defalcated it, or Bessler's widow hid it. Of coursealso the master himself could also have destroyed his product, if he had the time left to do so.

To me theses questions are open:

Has Karl (Braunschweig) ever shown any interest in the PM?

Is it true that the widow offered the inheritance to "the Duke" (which ist Karl, Braunschweig) as claimed in JCs book p. 160?

How could she do so, as the inheritance was impounded by the Hessians Malsburg/Frederic?

Whoever produced those engravings is the descendant of the scoundrel who absconded
Bessler's estate. That's my story and I'm sticking to it.

[daxwc]

Well it is definitely not a Bessler drawing. It is labeled like a Jacob Leupold drawing. I think it was somebody drawing the 1717 wheel. Like a history of mechanical machines of the time.

[murilo]

Upon one stuff you may be sure:
the figure '2' refers to a MILL!
A hammer mill as we have notices, starting with hydro power.
Applications, as we know well are specially on mining.
Best!
M

[Krabat]

So I think it's time to give the solution. Thanks to everybody who joined this little game. Of course the majority of members taking part in the poll chose the correct solution:

PM built by a saxon clockmaker around 1790 (60 rpm)

The pictures are taken from a book published by Johann Gottlob Häntzsche in Dresden 1790:

https://digital.slub-dresden.de/werkans ... f/21251/3/

The book itself is not very exciting. The author is a copycat, who - although not mentioning Bessler - just gave a reprise of by then 80year old promises. But times had changed: He seems to have had no succes, as there is nothing else known about him.

[MrVibrating]

If that thing ran at 60 RPM then it couldn't've been larger than about 10 cm tall..


..it's using 'T'-shaped pendulums, raising the amount of angular inertia the GPE is interacting with, so lengthening their period.

In other words, they're specifically optimised for swinging slowly; for a situation in which a basic pendulum, of equal length, would've been too fast. The designer didn't want to make the system any taller, so added more non-gravitating angular inertia to slow it down instead.

Or maybe i'm completely wrong, and the pendulum 'bobs' are actually balloons, or, perhaps marshmallows..?

But just supposing they're solid lead, and that the rig was actually running at 60 RPM...

• the wheel would be forcefully driving the pendulums (very forcefully)

• there would be a great shaking, probably lots of stress on any building it was housed in, dust falling thru the ceiling / chunks of plaster falling off etc.


The pendulums in the Kassel engravings are 'hieroglyphs' in the Kircher sense - the images are intended to depict elementary mechanical interactions that were key to his exploit, for which the actual historical events they represent are almost mere pretext; the interaction of gravity and inertia is the full breadth and scope of mechanical opportunities for OU; everything else (levers / gearing, springs, pulleys, penduli etc.) is just subsections. They're the only two force fields in all of classical mechanics, when you get right down to it.


Angular inertias, and GPE interactions. These are 'elements'. The stuff of OU - what it is actually constituted and concocted from.


Like most everyone else, Herr Häntzsche, it seems, couldn't see the wood for the trees..

[ovyyus]

If that thing ran at 60 RPM then it couldn't've been larger than about 10 cm tall.

The size is given by the illustration ruler. Bessler's first wheel was much larger than 10cm and it reportedly ran at 60RPM.

[m2x]

Is the unit of measurement is cubits? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ell

[John Collins]

No-ell! Sorry, bad pun. The measurements are shown in ells. Leipzig ells measure 22.3 inches.

JC