A Murilo Solution

[agor95]

Hi ovyyus

I agree that argument can reduce to a circular statement of faith that rejects the others argument. Also that can cause frustration resulting into an emotional outburst and entrenchment.

Murilo is also correct that for a clear way forward we need clear minds open to new concepts. These then need to be reviewed and progressed from subjective belief to objective reason. Then we can share a position on that which has been gained.

No need for emotion or unfounded preconceptions.

All the best

[agor95]

Just playing around with two notions, not an argument or a position, related to Murilo concept.

The first notion is a trolley supporting a mass. This is accelerated then decelerated.
This results in a change of position. The track is level and the trolley is not moving
before and after the change of position.

The trolley has two wound up springs to supply potential energy to carry out the
acceleration activities.

To balance it out the trolley is move back to it's original start position by a second
acceleration/deceleration pair of events.

The result is a loss of spring potential energy used with no gain.

The second notion a disc with equal masses on the rim, 8 on the left close together, and the same on the right.

All nice and balanced.

Then the ones on the right are spread apart around the rim. The one going up are balanced with the ones going down [in potential energy terms].

Notion 1. comes to mind as we are accelerating masses. However the level track is now vertical around the disc rim.

So the expectation potential energy has been lost to the system to spread the massed.

The good news is the masses on the left are densely pack and the right less dense.

The center of mass of both sets of 8 masses are aligned along the horizontal.

Acceleration, due to gravity, the masses inertia result in positive torque.
The disc will rotate counter clockwise.

However the right masses are above and below the left masses. I have spread them so the top one is at 12 o'clock and the bottom is at 6 o'clock.

If we move the top right mass and place on top of the top left mass then this will increase the positive torque.

As the top right mass is above the top left then this could be rolled to this location via a ramp; either on the disc or external to the disc.

At some point the bottom left mass of the 8 could be moved to the bottom right.
This would become the next mass in the, spreadout chain present on the right.

Just a notion - no argument offered - Could be worth an objective simulation.

All the best.

[agor95]

Hi Georg Künstler

I appear to be thinking about the advantages of having masses rolling
in holes around the rim of a disc.

It's a great way too control when an event happens. A mass [ball bearing, roller] can
be triggered into action by the contour of the wall inside the holes.

All the best

[Georg Künstler]

Hi Agor95,
the contour will indeed give you the possibility to start, stop the movement of the rolling mass.

You can create with this an ABS System.

I your construction you have some moving sticks, going from one side thru the axle, they swing back and forth in their oscillation.

I repeat it here again, we need a swinging in the room, back and forth and in addition up and down, and reversal.

When you have a look to my walker construction, you will sea what I mean.
the center of gravity is wobbling.

with a loose axle, what is represented by the walking mechanism it has this degree of fredom.
All of the forces left and right are identical, so the construction is not a runner, until you insert the springs in every leg, then you have your asymmetric torque when started with a finger push/pull.
every of the 8 springs act as its own, is loaded and compressed at the correct angle.

the construction is a gravity preloaded system. The finger push/pull is only the release of the well balanced system.

The contour allows an coupling and uncoupling of the walker.

[agor95]

Hi Georg Künstler

I appreciate your work and the use of two versions of inner device.

One with holes in a disc containing rollers with rollback blocks.

Two with arms that use compression springs to allow the center of mass to wobble.

The M. Turbine [as seen from this link https://steampunks.ddns.net/] does have a fixed
pivot.
However the center of mass virtually wobbles; just combine up the CoM of each bar.

I chose to use variable K springs [K is their strength]. So the more compressed
they become the K value increases.

I also updated by position the K values after reading J.C. analysis that the stork bill of 8 sections can be split into 5 regions. Therefore I have set the K values into 5 separate values and assigned them to the 8 segments as per his hint.

Before I was using one K value per section.

The reason of this was to address another member who found the problems with springs are 1. getting the the same strength / length, 2. As the rotation speed varies the springs act either to weak or to strong.

The above helps to compensate for these known problems.

P.S Back to this thread as it looks useful for murilo's solution.
All the best on your threads.

Regards

[murilo]

Hi, guys!
I guess that you all are just faking inside this thread and don't know what you are talking about!
Are you lost?
In my country we call this talk as 'lero-lero'.
TC!
M

[agor95]

Hi Murilo

Hopefully the other members posting in this thread will be answering your question.

The notion of the disc with masses describes is a response to the subject 'A Murilo Solution'.

The reason why Sanex [Frank Grimer or nephew of] created the topic is another point.

As it was created with Sanex login and not yourself there is less need to keep on topic.

This keeps your thread clean and on topic.

However it does allow alternative supporting propositions a place to be reviewed.

In my country we call this talk as 'lero-lero'.

If we find this thread is not trying to help you then we do have the word 'pillock'.

P.S. I am learning how to use Blender to present an example at this time.

All the best

[murilo]

agor95,
thank you so much for your clear consideration.
You really have pity with the small and below.
Best!
M

[agor95]

I have been looking at MT44 - MT50 with a fresh pair of eyes within 'maschinen tractate' site.
They all hint at the same possibility.

Some adjustments of cause; interesting all the same.

Regards