Thanks for the vote of support rasselasss.
I'm going back to the bary center principle because we have something that balances with 2 different weights/masses. If you've ever been weighed on an old beam-style scale, you know how a little weight can be used to counter a big weight and just how touchy and sensitive (accurate) something like that is.
I wonder where we can go with putting a large weight on one end of a rod and using Bessler's own line of thought - make sure the heavy weight weighs 4 times as much as the small weight - then place them accordingly so that they balance out. Next split both weights in half so the weight on either end of the rod doesn't change, but so that we can shift that mass in and out, side to side, etc.
What we've just created is the drummer toys. The anvils they are hitting on are in fact the ends of columns (as drawn). That's a fact I've mentioned before is they are hitting on the ends of columns. The upper weight is heavier and the bottom is lighter. Each is allowed to shift side to side.
So now I wonder what shifting the weight side to side on a bary center based pendulum would cause it to do?
Perhaps we need a pendulum on either end of our pendulum that reflects the overall weight distribution as I've mentioned it here.
Just some more thinking out of the box...
I must say that I do like the idea of utilizing the bary center approach because we are dealing with something that balances, but with 2 different masses. Starting swinging that stuff around and different stuff is going to start happening.
silent
Lazy tongs question
Moderator: scott
re: Lazy tongs question
@silent,
Have you ever explored the workings of the Milkovic Two Stage Oscillator or its potential as a weight lifting apparatus (prime mover)?
A single stroke of the mechanism (a single swing) is all that is needed to produce a lifting force, and it is this movement that I have been most interested in. Over the last 10 years or so I have experimented with various versions of the 2SO, concentrating mainly on what works and what doesn't, and I have settled on a final design.
Attached is a basic design that shows the concept I am suggesting. The design can be adapted to any number of OB wheels, such as MT9. This is pretty much where my work began, and although it does not resemble my final design, the underlying concept remains the same.
Have you ever explored the workings of the Milkovic Two Stage Oscillator or its potential as a weight lifting apparatus (prime mover)?
A single stroke of the mechanism (a single swing) is all that is needed to produce a lifting force, and it is this movement that I have been most interested in. Over the last 10 years or so I have experimented with various versions of the 2SO, concentrating mainly on what works and what doesn't, and I have settled on a final design.
Attached is a basic design that shows the concept I am suggesting. The design can be adapted to any number of OB wheels, such as MT9. This is pretty much where my work began, and although it does not resemble my final design, the underlying concept remains the same.
- Attachments
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re: Lazy tongs question
Happy Thanksgiving everyone!
And zoelra, thanks for sharing your information on the oscillator with me. I've read about that for years, but the only problem is that it requires constant input to maintain output. We need something self-sustaining that fits in a 4 inch thick wheel.
Here's a BIG hint: Focus on wheel density and then let gravity work her magic.
silent
And zoelra, thanks for sharing your information on the oscillator with me. I've read about that for years, but the only problem is that it requires constant input to maintain output. We need something self-sustaining that fits in a 4 inch thick wheel.
Here's a BIG hint: Focus on wheel density and then let gravity work her magic.
silent
Last edited by silent on Thu Nov 28, 2019 5:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.
re: Lazy tongs question
Deleted double post...
silent
silent
re: Lazy tongs question
When you get done with your holiday, let's talk about this oscillator some more. For starters, has anyone built this or have you tried? I've come up with some techniques to make building easier.
One trick I posted quite awhile ago is that 608 skateboard bearings press fit very nicely into the openings of a standard plastic pop bottle. I even found some bearings on ebay that have a flange on them to keep them from going too far down into the neck of the bottle. The standard 608 presses tight enough though that I haven't had one wobble off yet.
I have a pop bottle cap that I drilled a hole into and fastened a bolt through the top. I tighten a nut down on it and then chuck the whole thing in a drill. Then you have a spinning cap. You screw a pop bottle into the cap and spin the entire bottle with cap in the drill. Then you take a knife and place it just under the little flared portion on the bottles neck and after a few rotations, you can slice the rest of the bottle off nice and clean.
You end up with a nice flange that you can epoxy on to stuff and with the bearing inside of it, a 5/16" bolt fits good enough although a metric bolt would fit much better because after all, it's designed for metric-spec shafts.
This way you don't need to worry about precise holes in wood to press bearings into. You just epoxy on pop bottle necks and after curing you have a nice bearing to support the movement.
silent
One trick I posted quite awhile ago is that 608 skateboard bearings press fit very nicely into the openings of a standard plastic pop bottle. I even found some bearings on ebay that have a flange on them to keep them from going too far down into the neck of the bottle. The standard 608 presses tight enough though that I haven't had one wobble off yet.
I have a pop bottle cap that I drilled a hole into and fastened a bolt through the top. I tighten a nut down on it and then chuck the whole thing in a drill. Then you have a spinning cap. You screw a pop bottle into the cap and spin the entire bottle with cap in the drill. Then you take a knife and place it just under the little flared portion on the bottles neck and after a few rotations, you can slice the rest of the bottle off nice and clean.
You end up with a nice flange that you can epoxy on to stuff and with the bearing inside of it, a 5/16" bolt fits good enough although a metric bolt would fit much better because after all, it's designed for metric-spec shafts.
This way you don't need to worry about precise holes in wood to press bearings into. You just epoxy on pop bottle necks and after curing you have a nice bearing to support the movement.
silent
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justsomeone
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re: Lazy tongs question
Thanks Silent, Happy Thanksgiving to you also.
. I can assure the reader that there is something special behind the stork's bills.
re: Lazy tongs question
Could being away from the Bessler Forum be like to much Cold Turkey.
:-)
:-)
[MP] Mobiles that perpetuate - external energy allowed
@silent,
After reading your post in the member forum (and I commented), I think I now see where you were going in this topic/thread. I won't take up any more space commenting about the 2SO here - should I achieve success with the 2SO I will create a new topic. I'm going to take a break from the 2SO to investigate the shifting levers again in the Keenie.
After reading your post in the member forum (and I commented), I think I now see where you were going in this topic/thread. I won't take up any more space commenting about the 2SO here - should I achieve success with the 2SO I will create a new topic. I'm going to take a break from the 2SO to investigate the shifting levers again in the Keenie.
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justsomeone
- Addict
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- Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2008 5:21 pm
re: Lazy tongs question
Investigating the Buzzsaw wheel..... sounds like a great plan! 😉
. I can assure the reader that there is something special behind the stork's bills.
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justsomeone
- Addict
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- Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2008 5:21 pm
re: Lazy tongs question
Not yet ... sorry
. I can assure the reader that there is something special behind the stork's bills.
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Georg Künstler
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re: Lazy tongs question
Hi Silent,
i found an other link which is in german Wikipedia and not in english.
https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Feder_(Technik)
look at "Kombinationen von Tellerfedern".
This is looking like your lazy Tongs, but this are a Special spring combination.
also
https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federkons ... von_Federn
see "Reihenschaltung"
i found an other link which is in german Wikipedia and not in english.
https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Feder_(Technik)
look at "Kombinationen von Tellerfedern".
This is looking like your lazy Tongs, but this are a Special spring combination.
also
https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federkons ... von_Federn
see "Reihenschaltung"
Best regards
Georg
Georg
Georg thanks for the links. I'm going to check them out right now.
@zoelra - somehow I missed your post with the graphic representation of the 2 stage oscillator. That looks really interesting! When it comes to off-center rotations, there is really weird stuff going on. It's how you turn a flywheel into a pendulum. When I've been doing online research about off-center rotation and angular momentum, there is a surprising void - it's like people steer clear of it. I've found a few papers with formulas, but not a lot of physical demonstrations.
circle seemed to indicate that the imbalance found in a cotton scale was the answer as he said the resulting imbalance was just that clear.
I'm glad it was clear to him.
silent
@zoelra - somehow I missed your post with the graphic representation of the 2 stage oscillator. That looks really interesting! When it comes to off-center rotations, there is really weird stuff going on. It's how you turn a flywheel into a pendulum. When I've been doing online research about off-center rotation and angular momentum, there is a surprising void - it's like people steer clear of it. I've found a few papers with formulas, but not a lot of physical demonstrations.
circle seemed to indicate that the imbalance found in a cotton scale was the answer as he said the resulting imbalance was just that clear.
I'm glad it was clear to him.
silent