Covid-19

[Robinhood46]

agor95,
The theory of there being hope that the warmer weather will be of assistance needs to put emphasis on the word hope, the way things are going in countries in the southern hemisphere tend to show that we shouldn't count too much on that aspect.

[Oystein]

Examples:
1. The virus crown is quite large (diameter approximately 400-500 nanometers) so any type of mask can stop it: in normal life.

Answer:
https://www.livescience.com/coronavirus-myths.html
Myth: Face masks can protect you from the virus
Standard surgical masks cannot protect you from SARS-CoV-2, as they are not designed to block out viral particles and do not lay flush to the face,

(But what is true is that the masks helps contain the fluids from a sneeze or cough from an infected person).

The original source is here:
http://www.trombosi.org/it/news/newsDet ... 020&page=1

The Norwegian refute is here:
https://www.faktisk.no/artikler/RvY/fle ... -helt-feil

It proves we simply cannot believe everything we read. We must remember what we read and later see what seems correct or what seems to conflict.

This letter contains many advice that is NOT safe !!

Keep away from others at this time, is the only advice that actually is proven to work :-)

Best
ØR

[Art]

There is a tremendous amount of stuff not known about the effects of the Covid 19 virus and unfortunately circumstances don't allow us the time to wait and see .

So it is probably useful to speculate a little if it suggests possible protection measures .

I would like to point out that while this new and novel virus's challenge to our immune systems is new ( and this is what has the medical personnel up in a heap at the moment ) , it is not anything out of the ordinary course of events that our immune systems have faced many times before since we were born .

The immune system usually tackles this type of challenge by detecting it , testing methods to overcome it ,and implementing changes in the body to neutralise it .

But like every worthwhile project it takes time . What appears to be unusual about this particular virus is that it appears to have the ability to infect fast and overwhelm the bodies systems before they can properly act.

It would therefore seem that it may be quite important to limit the infecting dose in what ever manner possible to give the body time to operate its defenses.

Below is a list I was sent today by some friends which is self explanatory and appears to have originated in " St Georges Hospital" which I think is very informative . I hope nobody at the hospital (wherever it is ) objects to me taking this liberty of printing it here since it appears to have been written for hospital staff .

I would think that the procedure they suggest for using mouthwash or hydrogen peroxide gargling solution towards the bottom of the list might be very important in slowing the progression and allowing the bodies defenses to get up and run If you think you might be infected.

This is the list as received : -
>>> Internal email for staff in St George's Hospital Virus Detection:
>>> The simplest way to distinguish Coronavirus from a Common Cold is that the COVID-19 infection does not cause a cold nose or cough with cold, but it does create a dry and rough cough.
>>> The virus is typically first installed in the throat causing inflammation and a feeling of dryness. This symptom can last between 3 and 4 days.
>>> The virus typically then travels through the moisture present in the airways, goes down to the trachea and installs in the lungs, causing pneumonia that lasts about 5 or 6 days.
>>> Pneumonia manifests with a high fever and difficulty breathing. The Common Cold is not accompanied, but there may be a choking sensation. In this case, the doctor should be called immediately.
>>> Experts suggest doing this simple verification every morning: Breathe in deeply and hold your breath for 10 seconds. If this can be done without coughing, without difficulty, this shows that there is no fibrosis in the lungs, indicating the absence of infection. It is recommended to do this control every morning to help detect infection.
>>>
>>> Prevention:
>>> The virus hates heat and dies if it is exposed to temperatures greater than 80°F (27°C). Therefore hot drinks such as infusions, broths or simply hot water should be consumed abundantly during the day. These hot liquids kill the virus and are easy to ingest.
>>> Avoid drinking ice water or drinks with ice cubes.
>>> Ensure that your mouth and throat are always wet, never DRY. You should drink a sip of water at least every 15 minutes. WHY? Even when the virus enters water or other liquids through the mouth, it will get flushed through the oesophagus directly into the stomach where gastric acids destroy the virus. If there is not enough water, the virus can pass into the trachea and from there to the lungs, where it is very dangerous.
>>> For those who can, sunbathe. The Sun's UV rays kill the virus and the vitamin D is good for you.
>>> The Coronavirus has a large size (diameter of 400-500 nanometers) so face masks can stop it, no special face masks are needed in daily life.
>>> If an infected person sneezes near us, stay 10 feet (3.3 meters) away to allow the virus fall to the ground and prevent it from falling on you.
>>> When the virus is on hard surfaces, it survives about 12 hours,
>>> therefore when hard surfaces such as doors, appliances, railings, etc. are touched, hands should be washed thoroughly and/or disinfected with alcoholic gel The virus can live nested in clothes and tissues between 6 and 12 hours. Common detergents can kill it. Things that cannot be washed should be exposed to the Sun and the virus will die.
>>> The transmission of the virus usually occurs by direct infection, touching fabrics, tissues or materials on which the virus is present.
>>> Washing your hands is essential.
>>> The virus survives on our hands for only about 10 minutes. In that time many things can happen, rubbing the eyes, touching the nose or lips. This allows the virus to enter your throat. Therefore, for your good and the good of all, wash your hands very often and disinfect them.
>>> You can gargle with disinfectant solutions (i.e. Listerine or Hydrogen Peroxide) that eliminate or minimize the amount of virus that can enter the throat. Doing so removes the virus before it goes down to the trachea and then to the lungs.
>>> Disinfect things touched often: cellphone, keyboard, mouse, car
>>> steering wheel, door handles, etc

[Art]

Examples:
1. The virus crown is quite large (diameter approximately 400-500 nanometers) so any type of mask can stop it: in normal life.

Answer:
https://www.livescience.com/coronavirus-myths.html
Myth: Face masks can protect you from the virus
Standard surgical masks cannot protect you from SARS-CoV-2, as they are not designed to block out viral particles and do not lay flush to the face,

(But what is true is that the masks helps contain the fluids from a sneeze or cough from an infected person).

The original source is here:
http://www.trombosi.org/it/news/newsDet ... 020&page=1

The Norwegian refute is here:
https://www.faktisk.no/artikler/RvY/fle ... -helt-feil

It proves we simply cannot believe everything we read. We must remember what we read and later see what seems correct or what seems to conflict.

This letter contains many advice that is NOT safe !!

Keep away from others at this time, is the only advice that actually is proven to work :-)

Best
ØR

[Robinhood46]

Keep away from others at this time, is the only advice that actually is proven to work :-)
This not so.
Not licking cash machines or subway rails is also good sound advise.

[Art]

Pardon Me Oystein ,

At the very least you are unintentionally making this discussion a "dogs Breakfast " . But I feel at the moment it is verging on an unprovoked attack with questionable tactics .

So let me try and clarify a bit .

(1) As you can see in the above reprint of my original post I clearly state the circumstances and reasoning why I reprinted the list of suggested steps to possibly aid in mitigating or preventing the contracting of this disease.

I specifically referred to the one step towards the end of the list for the reasons stated .

(2) You immediately posted on March 18th saying that it was proven to be false information etc .
- and I have no problem with that .

(3)I responded again on March 18 , and you again responded to that post March 19 th .

- And this is where I start to have a problem with our discussion .

I responded to that post on the 19th and you in turn modified your post 19th post ( based on my response I presume ) and posted again on March 20th .

(4) I would like now to discuss that March 20th post above.

This Quote -

"This letter contains many advice that is NOT safe !! "

I find that objectionable for two reasons :-

Firstly : You are claiming that based on 2 links which you post (one in Spanish and one in Norwegian ! ) are apparently proof that

"This letter contains many advice that is NOT safe !! " which by inference must also be in my original post .

Being implicated in giving unsafe advice on a disease which is possibly fatal is not something I am going to take lightly so I would like to demand some accuracy in statements you make which "prove "these assertions .

I would appreciate if you would stick to my original quote of this list (in my post above ) and point out which practices are the "NOT safe !! " ones

Secondly : I presume from the top of this post that under the heading "Examples:1. ....." is one of these "NOT safe !! " advices.

(5) Lets look at that quote you are posting against what I posted and what is contained in the claimed original (Spanish ! ? ) version .

Your Quote :- "1. The virus crown is quite large (diameter approximately 400-500 nanometers) so any type of mask can stop it: in normal life. "

Art Quote :- "The Coronavirus has a large size (diameter of 400-500 nanometers) so face masks can stop it, no special face masks are needed in daily life. "

Claimed original Spanish :- " 1. Il corona virus è piuttosto grande (diametro circa 400-500nanometri) quindi ogni tipo di mascherina può fermarlo: non servono, nella vita normale, mascherine speciali."

Your quote has words in there that completely change the intended meaning of the original quote both in my post and also in the Spanish Quote .

The virus crown is a specific part of the virus molecule and is the reason that the species receive the name Coronovirus .
Translating the Spanish name for Coronovirus into 'the virus crown' looks like a deliberate attempt to skew the meaning and highlight the assertion that he is deliberately purvaying wrong information . I say this in light of the fact that my previous statement that
"The only major criticism I would have with it is that it is anonymous and they show a confusion in stating that the virus was 400 - 500 nanometers in size where they obviously were refering to the size of the respiratory infection droplets from coughs and sneezes which the N95 mask commonly used is designed to capture. " was a statement I made in my reply to the post that you have since altered .

And to continue with that quote -
"so any type of mask can stop it : in normal life " is not the same as "so face masks can stop it , no special masks are needed in daily life"

Again that looks to me like a deliberate attempt to make that Spanish original say things it is not saying .

Is this a translation from the Norwegian language refute of this article or are these your words ?

(6) Oystein , in conclusion to my diatribe can I say that while I agree with your statement

"It proves we simply cannot believe everything we read. We must remember what we read and later see what seems correct or what seems to conflict. "

we must be very clear on what is opinion and what is generally considered as fact , and opinions are not "proven" by other opinions which are not fact based .

So if there are any other items in that list that you say are "proved" to be unsafe , please refer me to them in the post above that I have reprinted so that I can be sure I am not misrepresenting advice that can either help or harm someone who might develop the infection .

I will be happy to correct them if necessary .

No Offence meant

All The Best - Art

[Oystein]

If you think you will stay clear of infection by using any facemask and drink hot drinks..and then go visit your parents..these advices are very dangerous..

I don't care spend more time going into further details about original meaning or translation. We don't follow those tips. We follow national health guidelines.

We are still in lockdown and so far 7 deaths in Norway, 2200 registered infections, but nobody knows the real number..All act or should act as they are infected..

We have just had a National debate about how many death that can be the worst case if we don't act even harder against the spreading of the virus.

A doctor tried to use the 4% death rate as an example on half the population.. a huge number of possible deaths..

BUT later sevetal reports came out and basically said what I wrote here. These numbers can't be used this way, because there are many times more unreported but still infected people. And IF the healthcare system is not overloaded, the overall deathrate seems more like 0,2 -0,5%. This is why the elderly have to be protected and the spreading have to be limited to protect the healthcare system from being overloaded. Also poor people have to be treated and kept at home etc.

Good luck to all.
ØR

[agor95]

Keep away from others at this time, is the only advice that actually is proven to work :-)
This not so.
Not licking cash machines or subway rails is also good sound advise.

Good advice - can we also include petrol pump handles.

Take along some paper to hold use the pump and bin it when done.

Some cases have been linked to that source.

P.S. Pasta is being sold in Ann Summers 3 for 2. Odd shapes?

[Robinhood46]

Petrol pumps is also something to be cautious with.
DON'T take the risk of wiping it with toilet paper unless absolutely certain nobody can see you.
Some people will shoot on the spot to steal the roll of toilet paper.

[agor95]

So much Toilet Humour. Just purchased a Toilet Roll in weeks :-)

https://who.maps.arcgis.com/apps/webapp ... 82a0d97a87

This is a better presentation of the USA.

Regards

[rasselasss]

Is it possible there is a link in the elderly and vulnerable mortality rate due to their immune system having had the flu jab inoculation as advised by their G.P.s and healthy adults having paid privately for prevention.....i'm not an expert but its the only link I can see affecting immune systems....The flu jab over here was rolled out November/December and I think this covid-19 virus beganJanuary/Feb this year, the Data of those inoculated who died would in my opinion be interesting.

[Robinhood46]

It does look like the immune response is playing a role in the outcome of affected patients. I wouldn't go so far as to think that the flu jab has anything to do with it. Another theory equally controversial for putting peoples immune system out of order is air pollution. It is already known that it plays a role in the spread and severity of viruses but studies need to be done to establish to what extent it is with this virus.

[Art]

If you think you will stay clear of infection by using any facemask and drink hot drinks..and then go visit your parents..these advices are very dangerous..

I don't care spend more time going into further details about original meaning or translation. We don't follow those tips. We follow national health guidelines.

We are still in lockdown and so far 7 deaths in Norway, 2200 registered infections, but nobody knows the real number..All act or should act as they are infected..

We have just had a National debate about how many death that can be the worst case if we don't act even harder against the spreading of the virus.

A doctor tried to use the 4% death rate as an example on half the population.. a huge number of possible deaths..

BUT later sevetal reports came out and basically said what I wrote here. These numbers can't be used this way, because there are many times more unreported but still infected people. And IF the healthcare system is not overloaded, the overall deathrate seems more like 0,2 -0,5%. This is why the elderly have to be protected and the spreading have to be limited to protect the healthcare system from being overloaded. Also poor people have to be treated and kept at home etc.

Good luck to all.
ØR

Hi Oystein ,

Are you trying to say here that I (Art) believes " you will stay clear of infection by using any facemask and drink hot drinks." ?

and that I am recommending that " you will stay clear of infection by using any facemask and drink hot drinks." ?


If this is the meaning you are trying to convey then I would like to immediately tell you that (1) I do not believe that , have never believed that and probably never will believe that .

And (2) , if you are trying to give the impression that I have recommended that anyone else should believe that , then I would like to also immediately tell you that I have not and probably never will because it is totally incorrect .


Your Quote "I don't care spend more time going into further details about original meaning or translation. We don't follow those tips."

Are you referring here to the altered and manipulated translation of that one step of the "original" from that original writer , or my posting of that list , or maybe to the whole "original" ?

If it is to that one step then I can well understand your reluctance of going "into further details" .


Whatever it is you believe Oystein , I have full confidence that you are convinced it must be correct (and quite possibly all of your ideas could be correct and proveable) , but can I ask that you not decide what my beliefs are , unless I have stated them , or what my recommendations are , unless I have recommended them .

[Art]

Keep away from others at this time, is the only advice that actually is proven to work :-)
This not so.
Not licking cash machines or subway rails is also good sound advise.

Good advice - can we also include petrol pump handles.

Take along some paper to hold use the pump and bin it when done.

Some cases have been linked to that source.

P.S. Pasta is being sold in Ann Summers 3 for 2. Odd shapes?

" P.S. Pasta is being sold in Ann Summers 3 for 2. Odd shapes? "


I decided that maybe now was a good time to review my "doomsday" store of food considering the likely-hood of being quarantined on the wrong side of my food supply.

So I dug into my pantry the other day to check the quantity and condition of the "cache".

Since I practice the "LIFO" system (last in first out) the material at the back of the pantry is the oldest .

The back of the pantry is also the place where the mice have had the most opportunity to select their preferred foods .

The mice are locals called Dunnarts (no relation ) and are nocturnal and mainly insect eaters and incredibly fast (to the point where sometimes they appear as a small shadowy blur as they pass and you wonder whether you have seen anything or not ).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fat-tailed_dunnart
(edited to replace unworking link)

They do a good job of keeping insects out of the pantry so I'm not unhappy with them as visitors unless they come in sometimes as they do in winter and decide that they want to stop over for a few months.

When they do that I'm stuck with the chore of trapping and evicting them from the trap at odd hours during the night . (That has to be done within a few minutes of trapping them otherwise they scare themselves to death ). The eviction involves at least a walk of about 30 meters for me to an area well away from the house from which they can't race me back and get back in before I do .
(this actually did happen once and made me feel like an idiot since the law here says you are not allowed to kill native animals and these buggers are taking advantage of my law abiding nature and there is nothing really preventing me from hogtieing them if I want to !)

While their main food source is usually insects , they seem quite happy to sample nearly everything I consider edible except a few noticeable items like Chilli , AND PASTA !

So when I checked my "doomsday" stock I was pleased to find that it was totally insect and mouse damage free . The assumptions I made when laying the stock in were correct (and probably are the same reasons that people are emptying the shelves of Pasta) ,

ie Pasta is the ideal long term Emergency food storage medium . The date on my current "doomsday" stock is March 1996 ( 24 years old ! ) .

Nothing else wants to eat it and it lasts and lasts and lasts until God Knows when ! : )


Now , if these lockdowns persist for awhile , I may get to try and cook these up and see if the taste is acceptable .

But then again I realise I rarely cook pasta for myself by choice because I'm not sure I like it all that much at the best of times even with pasta sauce , and I didn't have the foresight to include that in my stock , so whatever the taste is , it will be all right because I'll be so hungry by then that even the Dunnarts might look like a good food source that might be used to compliment the new " old " pasta flavour.

I wonder if Ann Summers would be interested in trading in some of her pasta on a 'one for one' exchange for some vintage ,matured and aged Pasta , with a possible 'mystery flavour' .

[agor95]

Here is the Ann Summers Store. You may want to ask her :-)

https://www.annsummersstore.co.uk/index ... arch=pasta

In the UK it's a lovely pandemic day. Blue sky, clear air and no street noise.

However some are having a drop in income.

House Burglars are having a hard time - We are all in !

Shop Lifters are find it hard the shops are shut. Try stealing a Toilet Roll with all the customers watching each others like praying mantis.

Just one wrong move and it will be snatched out of their hands.

Drug dealers can not do there rounds as the police are all out and bored.
Little traffic on the roads so they standout as odd.

Beggars income is down; there is so few people out.

The police are bored as the pubs and night clubs are shut.
No drunk and disorderly, No one wants to fight they are scared of going to hospital !

However profiteering is happening - And we know who they are !

All the Best