Self Running Magnetic Motor

[Furcurequs]

Okay, I suspect that this is just a hoax, but I saw the link to the video in a comment on John Collins's blog, and I thought it was interesting enough to comment on here.

"Self Running Magnetic Motor"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r4N4TiOHc-g

If there is no hidden power source in the device shown in this video, then it would appear to be a genuinely working permanent magnet powered motor. It even sort of has the look of a very real and somewhat crude experimental device that someone could have been piddling with for some time before finally getting it to work, but... ...and of course... ...there are, I believe, some rather suspicious things overall.

On one hand the guy in the video seems to know what the significance of something like this would be, his channel name is even "perpetuum mobile," and in his presentation he shows the device from many angles so as to apparently show that there are no external (hidden) sources of power, but then at the end of the video he dismisses the device he has just shown as only being able to run itself and so not having any "free energy" available and then says it would be better to use solar cells - which, of course, would be an incredibly stupid thing to say if what he had just shown was actually real.

...but then, again, maybe he could be an idiot savant.

Also, in the crude drawing he shows at one point, either his "small magnet" has two north poles which would contradict other things said about it in the video or he drew his "S" backwards.

...again, though, maybe he is an idiot savant!

I also find it suspicious that the plywood base is shiny and so seems to have been varnished. Why would the guy have spent any time making his dirty plywood shiny unless perhaps he gave that plywood base more attention than it deserved and hid something in it?

...or some idiot savants just like their things shiny?!

Anyway, with all the hoax videos out there, it seems to me that if someone actually did have a real working device of some kind and wanted to be taken seriously, he would almost have to have the attention of a major news outlet and/or the endorsement of a reliable third party that is viewed by the public as an authority of some sort.

[johannesbender]

or ,build everything from plexiglass , put it inside a faraday cage during the video.

well almost everything is possible with videos and digital media these days , it would always be "suspect" .

[silent]

Pretty cool if it's legit. Even if it trickle-charges a smartphone it's technically over-unity. :)

silent

[Furcurequs]

I generally don't mind hoaxes, I have a bit of a mischievous streak myself, but when they are in the areas of my own actual interests and experimentation they can be kind of frustrating. Do I now need to worry about somebody else having beaten me to the punch, for instance? Should I waste any of my time trying to figure out what's going on with this device or how it might relate to my own current understanding of things - when it could possibly be nothing more than a deception? There is a whole lot of "noise" out there, you know.

I currently have six tabletop sized experimental devices in my cabin that are made mostly of wood. Four are gravity related and two involve permanent magnets. So, if I were to actually get something to work myself, what I would have to show probably wouldn't look all that much different (generally speaking) from what this guy has shown. Should I therefore take some anonymous stranger's experiment as seriously as I take my own?

For peace of mind I typically just try to pretend that the rest of the world doesn't exist when it comes to my own projects and so just pursue them at my own lame (and unfortunately truly lame due to my chronic pain issues) pace.

If I were to eventually get something working, I would of course want to show it off, too, but I probably would only do that publicly after I had seen a good patent attorney and filed my applications. I would also want to do some explanatory videos covering the theory of operation and how it ties in with physics that's already known and accepted while also, of course, pointing out the significant things which have been overlooked (currently hypothetically speaking and so not yet verified, of course).

As far as the device in the youtube video, because of where the magnets on the wheel are located it would be incredibly easy to hoax this with nothing more than a hidden battery and a pulsed coil circuit in the plywood base. The power pulses from below would be present at the same moment the small visible magnet was aligned with a magnet on the wheel. It does indeed look impressive, though, and like it's the product of a true experimenter. That's why I wanted to show it here.

[andyblues]

Hi Furcurequs , nice share, i fail to see how the magnets can get past there own attraction with out a controller some where , i will be watching what you see here ,i know you will do a good job and clear it up one way or another ,it is a nice piece of work adaptable and lovingly made very interesting ,thanks again Andyb.

[ovyyus]

Seems relatively simple to replicate (if it isn't a fake), with the exception of:

The small magnet is deliberately weakened by heating.
When I make the small magnet stronger or weaker, the motor no longer runs.

The below replication (found in the youtube comments section) doesn't seem to address the inventors point about the strength of the weak magnet being critical to operation. Also, no timing adjustment is evident. This replication is intended to prove the invention is a fake, so it's a biased attempt.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C8NkIiTmmt8

[Furcurequs]

This is a comment from the guy who replicated the device:

Am construit aceasta jucarie, doar pt a i arata la acel holandez k e fals si k ceea ce el a construit nu i merge. El sigur a folosit ceva bateri ascunse sau altceva ajutator. E imposibil sa se nvarta doar pur si simplu cu magneti. Nu putem dobora legea termodinamica. Merci oricum bro

...and the Google translation from the Romanian:

I built this toy, just to show him that Dutch is fake and k what he built doesn't work. He sure used some hidden batteries or something else to help. It is impossible to just swing with magnets. We cannot break the thermodynamic law. Thanks anyway bro

Although that is now his stated stance, with the title of the replication video being "For me doesn't work yet..." and also from what sounds to me like his disappointed tone of voice in the video itself, I suspect that when he originally built the thing he may have actually been hoping it would work. I agree, though, that he doesn't seem to have addressed the issue about weakening the small magnet.

When the person demonstrating the original device, however, fails to give crucial details about things such as measurements of the actual strengths of the magnets and the actual distances between them and whatnot which one would actually need to know to build an adequate replication, it can allow for potential hoaxers to put the blame on the replicators and thus deflect attention from themselves.

I personally feel that due to all the hoaxes and frauds out there, that a sincere experimenter sort of owes it to those interested in the subject to be as descriptive and detailed as possible when he finally decides to show something publicly so that others really would be able to produce a successful replication.

[Furcurequs]

Hi Furcurequs , nice share, i fail to see how the magnets can get past there own attraction with out a controller some where , i will be watching what you see here ,i know you will do a good job and clear it up one way or another ,it is a nice piece of work adaptable and lovingly made very interesting ,thanks again Andyb.

Thanks. Again, I first saw the link to this in a comment on John Collins's blog and from, I believe, an anonymous poster.

I don't really see how this motor is supposed to work either - if it's real - unless it is some odd effect of having the smaller magnet weaker. In the way it's shown, I would think there would be more of a back torque on that flimsy wire lever arm if there was really a significant interaction between the visible magnets. The device really doesn't look right to me, though, and I think the odds are pretty high that it is just a hoax - but a pretty good one.

I'll keep my eye on this in case any more information turns up, though.

[thx4]

This model is quite easy to understand, the inertia disc is made with the greatest care... once launched, considering its weight, it hardly sees the tilting system, it passes without any problem, and if in addition it receives a small magnetic thrust, it's welcome...

It's a research that I prefer, I think this model deserves more attention, and a serious replica.

A++

[nicbordeaux]

That is a concept I have been thinking about for a heck of a long time. The thinking is that as a wheel magnet approaches an external magnet, you get the external magnet to physically flip or rotate, so that the side (polarity) facing the mag on the wheel changes at precisely the right moment, so you are aiming to get the attraction then repel, with none of the "stiction point" .

Or, as would seem to be the case here, you go for just attract or repel, mechanically or magnetically withdraw the magnet via a spring, or cam and lever arrangement, under the effect of the magnetic force (part of that magnetic interaction gives an impulse to the wheel, part goes to moving the "small" external magnet). That mechanical cam or spring is to ensure the magnet returns to it's initial position at the right time. Timing is the clue if the thing works.

That scenario implies that you get positive drive out of the magnets repelling and moving . IOW, the Wheel mag must get a drive/kick from the outboard mag, and the outboard mag get's a sufficient repel to move away in time and not return before the point of attraction has passed.

So the thing is "conceivable" , but not having made a full build, I can't tell you if it's possible, if that device is real.

Bear in mind that the external magnet looks like a "donut" or round mag, so polarity all of 1 side (axial polarity). The bar magnets will be N along 1/2 the length, the S pole along the other half.

[nicbordeaux]

Or in the words of the wise internet : "Ordinary bar magnets have the north pole on one end, and the south on the other. ... Round magnets have the north pole on one side, and they have the south on the other"

OK, forget that, looked at the vid closely, the guy says 90° rotation from attract to repel, so 1sy hypothesis was "correct" .

[Georg Künstler]

When I looked at the prototype it remembers me on a prototype build from AIRY in about 1896. I have seen a long time ago his patent on his device.
He used a swinging horseshoe magnet to get the repulsion.
Maybe someone can have a look and find this old patent.

[BesslerInterested]

Big THX for bringing this into attentioon.
I have to search youtube with
magnet motor again daily, not to miss one again.
I think it could be legit, it reminds me of howard johnsons designs with rubber magnets, that he stated somewhat would bounce at the dead spot, making whis designs overcome the dead spot.
This design somehow is similar to that, when the magnet flips.
Also huge similaities to the magnet motor from German Friedrich Lüling:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y0T3JWEnSIE
@Georg:
Do you have more information, regarding the patent Number?